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D-17 Series 1 slow hydraulics |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4388 |
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Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 9:15am |
I recently bought a D-17 Series 1 and a trip loader. The trip loader wasn't on the tractor when I bought it. I put the loader frame and the loader on this past weekend and the loader, and the lift arms, raise very slowly.
When I got it, it was low on both hydraulic fluid and transmission/rear end gear oil. Both levels have been filled to where they should be. Hydraulics are still very slow. Is there a screen that needs to be cleaned or do I need to rebuild the hydraulic pump? I would love to find a fully hydraulic loader with a front mounted pump.
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Strokendiesel002
Silver Level Joined: 04 Apr 2019 Location: 53158 Points: 252 |
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I think the Series 1-3 internal hydro is only 1.5GPM
Front mounted pump for "live hydro" is an upgrade that would serve will now and make raiser the transition later. I recently acquired a 417 front end loader that came off the series 4. As this is the case I had to start from scratch for the live hydraulic/ front mounted pump. There is a nice write-up in the other section of the forum from another member. I am almost done adding the front pump to mine and posted a few pictures of some of the modifications I had to make to the bolster. Good luck and let's see some pictures! |
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oldfords
Bronze Level Access Joined: 31 Mar 2020 Location: South Dakota Points: 46 |
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I thought someone may find this helpful. I purchased a 1958 D17 some 25 years ago with a Westendorf WL20 loader with a rear PTO pump. This worked fine for me but my kids and son-in-laws can’t seem to understand how to leave the clutch alone and use the power director to control the movement of the tractor. So I decided to replace the WL20 with an Allis 517 loader. I was able to obtain one from a guy in Iowa who is on this forum. After driving 1600 miles round trip, I got it home and began the switch. This loader had been installed on a series IV D17 with the spacers and with my old tractor I knew I would not need to use the spacers. The first problem I encountered was that I needed to notch the side frame to accommodate the bolts that mount the front of the engine to the tractor. (see picture 1) That done I next installed the rear frames. Since the frames on a series IV bolt outside the fenders, and on my old 17 they bolt on the inside of the fenders. This required that I cut and redrill the underneath crossover angle. After getting all this mounted, I find that I needed to notch the rear frame so the brake pedal could go down. (see picture 2) Since this loader had no oil reservoir, I used the oil tank from the Westendorf . It was set up for the rear PTO pump, so I turned it around so the oil nipples were now facing the front. It measures 16” x 16” x 4” and holds about 4.5 gal. I bolted it to the rear loader frame with a 2” spacer under it so I have about 8” of oil above the inlet to the pump. (see picture 3) I welded a piece of pipe on the reservoir flange and slipped a welded 90 deg piece of pipe over it so I could mount the 3 spool valve. When I had it where I wanted, I drilled and bolted the two pieces of pipe together so it could not turn. (see picture 4) I welded a flat plate on another small piece of pipe to hold the valve itself and it is held in place with a set screw. (see picture 5) I opted to have the valve on the left side so I can run the loader and the power director at the same time, and a three spool valve so I can install a grapple fork. Next the pump itself. My tractor is old enough that I had to change the crank pulley to accept the splined hub. I did not know at the time, but there is a kit available minus the pump and pulley on this forum. I chose a pump that delivers 23 gpm and a three spool valve with float that will pass 30 gpm. The pump I used matched the mounting plate perfect but it covered the holes used to mount the plate to the tractor. I was able to grind the pump flange on one side so I could use an allen head bolt. There was no way to make the other side fit because of the valve body. I used ½” ready rod and bottomed it out in the tractor housing. I then tapped the hole in the mounting plate and installed a ½” heli coil. I slid the spacer on the ready rod and then screwed the mounting plate on the ready rod. When it tightened up against the spacer, I installed the other spacer and bolt. I then ground off and excess ready rod and mounted the pump. The ready rod cannot work in because it is bottomed out in the housing. It cannot work out because it is against the pump body. With a 1” suction and a ½” pressure line it all works great. I would have attached the pictures but I don't know how |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19508 |
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Original high pressure (3,000+ psi) belly pump was 4 to 4.5 GPM. If the lift arms are slow and hydraulic sump (right side under the fuel tank) is full, it must be pump issues or maybe a screen, but you do them both while apart. Those lift arms with warm oil should lift in 2 seconds bottom to top with the engine throttled up.
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4388 |
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After I used they hydraulics (loader) and parked it, there was a huge puddle of oil under the tractor from the bell housing area all the way to the rear end. I'm wondering if the internal hose could be leaking or if it is a different problem.
Again, this is a tractor I just bought and have practically no time on it.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19508 |
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You have three places to check oil level. The hydraulic compartment is under the fuel tank on the right side. The Power Director/PTO gears are at the left corner of the instrument panel and takes a 7/8" wrench. The transmission/differential and lift arm cylinder and internal hose are to the right of the gearshift. Surely, one of these is low on oil level if you have a leak ??????????????
Edited by DrAllis - 23 Nov 2020 at 9:54pm |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4388 |
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Doc, I finally got down there during daylight to check.
The hydraulic fill, under the gas tank, is still full. The Power Director/ PTO gears (dipstick with 7/8" nut) is full (actually over full and milky). The other, 1/4 turn, cap (dipstick is missing) appears to be low and I suspect that is where the oil came from. I had filled it, by sight, until there was about 1" of fluid showing in the bottom of the sump and there is nothing showing in the sump now. As you can see in the photo below, there was a significant amount of oil that leaked out. My hydraulics are still very slow. It took me about a minute to raise the loader about 4' (fluid cold). Do you think I have two separate problems? Where should I start? |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19508 |
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If the hydraulic compartment is full of oil and the oil is of proper viscosity (a 20W or a Trans/Hydraulic oil) and the lift arms themselves take much more that 2 or 3 seconds to raise with the engine throttled up, the hyd pump must have issues. There may be a screen, depends on the actual age of the tractor and whether someone has been into it before.
Your oil leak has nothing to do with the hydraulics lack of speed. Look at the PTO shaft seal area.
Edited by DrAllis - 06 Dec 2020 at 8:05am |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4388 |
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Thank you Doc !!!
I will try to do something on it this week and I will let you know what I find.
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