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My B Starter (and now magneto) project |
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Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2198 |
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I think this is a good idea if you're not comfortable with the welding option. If you use an internal hex plug or a pipe reducer, you will have the beginnings of your hole already. On the other hand, there must be a guy (or two) on here that has a good B nose cone lying around that they could part with? |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77747 |
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If you listen to the EXPERTS they will tell you to preheat the cast iron to 1000 degrees and weld it up with a stainless or inconel ( nickle rod).....
You dont really need the iron that HOT.. It can be "warm".. I use about 300 degrees. The idea to to BURN OFF any oil that is impregnated in the casting... Nice to use stainless rod, but i have had a lot of success with 7018 steel rod. You only weld short passes, maybe an inch long.. Chip the flux and peen the metal to relive stresses as you weld... GO SLOW... When done, cover with a heat blanket or maybe sand and let it COOL SLOW.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Spent a good part of yesterday rebuilding the starter. New armature, new brushes, new gear.... and nothing. My neighbor is coming over later today to put another set of eyes on the work, but honestly.... how hard can it be. It won't even turn. Just a click on the solenoid, but not even a response from the starter, as though it's shorted. Should there be continuity on the starter cylinder? I get continuity from the 12 volt stud to the rest of the body when I hook up the brush plate (the back plate) to the cylinder, e.g., the stators. All I did was replace the brushes, the armature, the stators and the springs. That's all that came with the kit.
Edited by jlbintn - 01 Nov 2020 at 11:53am |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77747 |
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quite often the cause is bad terminal ends on the starter cables and the battery terminals themselves... corrosion / tarnish on the terminals ...........and yes, there should be continuity from the STUD thru the windings ... brushes will have some resistance thru them.
since you have a STUD , you are using a SOLENOID... it is possible the contact inside is burnt... have you tried jumping it ... going straight from the battery terminal to the starter stud ? ..... and you cant BENCH test it that way.
Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Nov 2020 at 12:37pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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No, haven't tried to jump it. Not sure how to safely connect it. I tried and the battery jumper cables started getting warm, so I took them off. I've never done that before, so working a bit in the dark. I bought a new starter, it's a 6v starter that is supposed to be a direct replacement for the starter I have on the tractor, the 1107043. I'm getting 12.3 volts from the battery positive to the top solenoid stud. Getting the same on the bottom stud. I get 12.35 volts to the stud on the new starter. Just solenoid clicking. The same thing it did with the rebuild attempt. I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing here. I believe my old starter is a 6v starter as well. This has to be something simple. Would the ignition be an issue? I wouldn't think so, if voltage is moving through the connectors and the solenoid and getting to the starter. Anyway, that's where I'm at.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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ok, nevermind got the starter to turn. Not sure why it wouldn't at the time of the last post. I didn't do anything else. Maybe cables |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77747 |
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clean cable ends and battery clamps... and CLEAN the battery lugs themselves is a main cause of NO CRANK.... not just wipe off clean.. you have to sand paper or wire brush.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Thanks Steve, the battery is new, thereby clean. I sand-blasted the old starter.... there was so much paint on the old one that I didn't notice that it had been "remanufactured" by a past owner. The post that is supposed to be engaged from the Starter Rod wasn't there, that I knew with comparison to newer pictures of re-man starters. I had been wondering why I didn't have that post cover, but it was of secondary concern, considering the other issues I have been dealing with.... and the tractor started reliably soooo.... on the backburner until it could no longer be left there. My tractor did not come with a Starter Rod, but I didn't even know that til this problem came up. By that I mean that I did not know it was a necessary part of the tractor because the starter was not reliant upon it. Somebody removed it, sometime in the past. Looking at the old starter, the post was a single brass/copper bolt, but threaded to the outside, not inside the starter as it was designed to be. Had I not sand-blasted it, I never would have seen the two threaded holes for the post mount cover with the spring button that is activated by the starter rod. So I had a 6 volt starter that somebody home remedied sometime long in the past, during a rebuild. Everything became clear upon closer inspection last night. So that is where I am. I have to hold that button in to get the starter to turn, but a starter rod is definitely a must.
Edited by jlbintn - 06 Nov 2020 at 11:20am |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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This is a picture I posted in my inaugural thread last year. It should show clearly the starter as it came with the tractor.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77747 |
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YEP... with that starter, rear wheel rims, seat, backrest and drawbar..... there has been a lot of "modification" going on before you ............ NICE LOOKING TRACTOR !
What is the deal with the rims and bolts to the hub.... hard to see details in that photo. Make sure the trans is in NEUTRAL when you push that starter button !!! Double check and check again !
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Nov 2020 at 6:09pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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yes, even though I know it is, I always check that shifter stick. The tractor looks nicer now, than it did then, with a clean head, cleaned up thermostat housing and cleaned up magneto case. I should just go all in, but right now I want to get it back to starting reliably. I think I have some magneto work to do, it does not want to start after installing the new starter. My neighbor and I checked spark on each cylinder.... barely registering any at all. I put new points and a condensor in, but still no spark. It is timed correctly, using this guide: |
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mdm1
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Onalaska, WI Points: 2592 |
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Your starter was converted to a push button start. Nothing wrong with that. You will have to hold the button in to engage the starter. Maybe I missed it but did you bench test the starter?
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Wanted to edit this, and apologize to mdm1. I read too much into your post (overthinking ), hope you didn't think I was contradicting your correct analysis of the push button. That was not my intent. Actually, whoever did the conversion on the starter that came with the tractor, most likely eliminated the starter rod, thereby allowing turning the key to crank the starter without doing anything else. I tried bench testing the old starter, but could not figure out how to do it without the solenoid off the tractor. All I got was sparks, but nothing else, and that was after putting in new brushes, new stators and a new armature. I can't figure out what I did wrong. I had continuity from the post to the starter casing. I don't think that is normal, so if my thoughts on that are correct, something got shorted somewhere, but I couldn't figure out what. My neighbor and I completely tore down the magneto today, and replacement parts have been ordered. Looking forward to getting it back together. I wish I could roll down to a store and get all of this, the same day I need it. Kinda sucks waiting on online ordering. I have no idea why the rims are the way they are. That farmerized drawbar has been off the tractor since July. I had hoped to be on a plow project by now (and rebuild of the hyd pump if necessary), but this other stuff had to be addressed.
Edited by jlbintn - 20 Nov 2020 at 9:51am |
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Stookless
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Jan 2019 Location: 46759 Points: 98 |
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I have starter nose cones for b starters if anyone needs them. They might even be nos.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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The tractor is back up and running. My neighbor told me something about a vehicle he purchased, but was having issues with. A Jeep, too and Jeeps can be more problematic (financially) than a tractor I suspect. All it needed was money. The starter is fine, however, I do not like that starter switch. Even without over-cranking it, those contacts get pitted fast, and then the circuit is not completed and all I get is the solenoid click. For now, I took the switch off and just hold the cable to the flat head of the lug and it turns every time. I looked at the contact points in the switch.... they did not look bad.... definitely not abused, pitting as I stated above, but minor. I fluxed the contacts really good and brazed some solder on both and it worked.... but only for a bit. I think I am beginning to understand why the previous owner (whichever one it was), re-engineered the original starter to have a longer lug with threads outside the starter body, bypassing that push button switch. I may take it to a good alternator shop, and see if they can do that for me. For now, with the addition of the reman magneto, it fires up with 2-3 bump cranks, the way it's supposed to. I have a compression test kit on the way, I want to check that to get a baseline and know what I may be dealing with in the block, but the tractor runs nice and sounds good. What an adventure this has turned out to be.... edit to add: Oil pressure hold steady at 20 when cold, between 15-18 at operating temperature.
Edited by jlbintn - 20 Nov 2020 at 9:11am |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Coming up on a year since I got this tractor. To date, I have about two grand into it. Five hundred of that came to me with the tractor/trailer trade. Even if, eventually, push comes to shove and I decide (or am compelled) to rebuild the engine, there is no way I could have got a newer modern tractor for the cost invested in this old B, especially considering that it will do everything I need it to do. Edited by jlbintn - 20 Nov 2020 at 9:13am |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5637 |
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Good morning, Jim! Yes, they take some work and money to get brought back to life, but as you noted, they're not nearly as costly as something new, hence, very worth it, provided you don't need all the extended features (useful, and useless) of modernity.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Howdy Dave, thanks for the response. Informative response in the other B thread, too. I love modernity, but only to a point. my name is John, but Jim is a good name, too
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