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Brian(WA) 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Washington
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 Topic: D15 Series 2 Starter Drive
Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 12:25pm |
Our D15 has been having a random problem with starting. It usually starts right up with minimal cranking. Sometimes it will not turnover the engine and makes a grinding noise like the starter drive is grinding on the flywheel. It seems like the ratcheting starter drive is not fully extending to make good contact with the teeth on the flywheel. Its a crapshoot as to whether or not it will start again after this. We have tried removing the starter and retracting the starter drive, boosting the battery while starting. It will just grind again more often than not. We did get a new starter and it seems like its to short since the starter just runs and does not turn over the tractor or grind on the flywheel. here are some rough measurements we have made. Keep in mind that this starter is secured to the tractor by the single pointed bolt and lock nut.
On tractor Stater bolt hole to far side of Flywheel teeth (so over the teeth) - 3 1/4 inch Current starter bolt hole to end of drive teeth - 3 inches New starter to end of drive teeth - 2 7/8 inches
It seems like our starter drive is not fully engaging. That coupled with some where on the flywheel teeth causes our issue.
Any advice on how to fix this? Is there a special Starter drive that fully engages? Replacing the ring gear?
Here are some pictures of the flywheel teeth and the starter drive.
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Boss Man
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 1:16pm |
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Time to replace the ring gear. Try turning the engine a little by hand then try the starter. More than likely will start.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 2:23pm |
hmm... another 'chewed' ringgear...BTDT. On my D-14 'Troy', I replaced the ringgear. Got from AGCO, made in India ! Please be sure to count the teeth ! D-14s were either 6 volt or 12 volt and used different ringgears ,so be SURE to count. 2 of my D-14s are 6 volts tractors with 12 volt batteries, the 3rd is a TRUE 12 volt tractor. I don't KNOW what a D15 has, so be sure to count !!
I was told all gas 4 cycle engines stop in 1 of 2 places. You'd think a 50/50 chance of stopping where there's good teeth.....yeah, right,not....If the bendix doesn't fully engage, chewing occours....do it enough and well....the picture shows what happens... New ringgear was about $100,so I went that route. You could mark where it is now(use punch !),remove, and then replace about 30-45* from original location, providing the rest of the teeth are good. Since it's already 'split', maybe replace the throwout bearing and the pilot bearing...... one of those 'while I'm here...might as well...jobs.. if you don't , 3 days, 3 weeks later...grr.. 'I KNEW I should have' .......
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Stan R
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Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Location: MA
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 2:27pm |
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Flip the ring gear. With heat.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 3:24pm |
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I couldn't 'flip' the one on my D14,would only go one one way.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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jiminnd
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Rutland ND
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 3:51pm |
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I think it is right, only stop on 2 spots, if you want the work you can remove your ring gear and just rotate it 1/4 turn, by then I think it just makes sense to replace it.
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1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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MACK
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Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 9:20pm |
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I would replace ring gear before it eats up start drive. Starter drive cost about the same as ring gear. MACK
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 23 Aug 2020 at 9:16am |
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Yes, that ring gear definitely needs to be replaced. It cannot be flipped over!
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Nathan (SD)
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Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 4:39am |
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Make sure the drive pushes all the way out to the end of the nose. I have had to shim a few on B and C starters.
That ring gear ain't that bad. Getting wore but still plenty of life.
My guess is under power, the bendix doesn't push out all the way.
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Brian(WA)
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Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 4:43pm |
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Nathan (SD)How do I shim out the Starter drive? There is some room for it to come all the way out to the end.
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Nathan (SD)
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Posted: 26 Aug 2020 at 6:28am |
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Shimming is the wrong word. Adjusting would be more accurate. Usually have to cut and weld the the stop for the bendix on the starter shaft.
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Gary
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
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Posted: 26 Aug 2020 at 7:40am |
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Nathan
Just curious how you would come to the conclusion that
"That ring gear ain't that bad. Getting wore but still plenty of life."
That ring gear is definitely wore bad and needs replaced.
I hope you are not in any kind of 'Repair Business' where you have to make similar decisions when repairing something.
Gary
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 8:54am |
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Lol. That ring gear needs to be replaced! Bad by any standard.
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Brian(WA)
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Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 5:54pm |
Thanks to everyone for the responses. Is the ring gear soldered on to the flywheel or is it a friction fit? When I heat the flywheel am I un-soldering it or just expanding it to remove it.
This will be my first time splitting a tractor so it should be an adventure!
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Boss Man
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Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 6:11pm |
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Just a friction fit. I normally pound the old one off. Then put the new one in oven at 450 for 15 mins and it drops right on. Make sure the significant other isnt home when you bake the ring gear....lol
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Robert Mull Sr Georg
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Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 6:21pm |
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When I replaced the ring gear on my D15 Series 2 I put the flywheel in the freezer over night and then the ring gear in the oven on 450 for about 30 minutes. Used welding gloves pulled from oven and placed on fly wheel and let all cool on its on.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 6:25pm |
yeah... WELDING GLOVES.... they're kinda important...... but buying the wife a nice dinner out will cost you more that the new ringgear
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Nathan (SD)
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 7:04am |
 Gary wrote:
Nathan
Just curious how you would come to the conclusion that
"That ring gear ain't that bad. Getting wore but still plenty of life."
Gary
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You can see in the pic that the away side of the tooth never gets any contact from the starter drive. Usually that is a sign that the drive isn't pushing out into the nose cone far enough. To me it looks like over 70% of the tooth left. Maybe a bad camera angle? Maybe my eye sight sucks ? Maybe your eye sight is bad ? The OP can follow my advice or not. I could care less either way.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:34am |
Sounds to me like you need to do two things. First, send out the Starter to get rebuilt the correct way by replacing the Armature as part of the build, (like I do) and second, change out that ring gear that's toast! If the Starter you have doesn't fit the application, you have the wrong Starter motor. Hopefully, you still have your original Starter motor (and didn't use it for a core) and have that rebuilt the correct way. While your changing out that bad ring gear, run over your Battery cables, grounds, and the Battery to make sure all those components that make up the cranking system are in perfect working order. You should then eliminate any of the problems your having with cranking the engine over.. HTH Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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JC-WI
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Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 12:34pm |
Steve in NJ, Or anyone else, would you happen to have the Delco Remy starter motor number for an H3 allis crawler???? And what are the differences between a D15 starter and the H3 if there is? Just got an H3 that the nose cone has been broken and rewelded, the bushing is gone on the housing end, the armature shaft is worn on the end too, the bendix pretty worn out ... and the field coils in the housing are history... and no tag on it. Think it is time for a new starter, or a good used one. But need a good number to go by to buy one. Thanks.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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DSeries4
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Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 8:49pm |
JC(WI) wrote:
Steve in NJ, Or anyone else, would you happen to have the Delco Remy starter motor number for an H3 allis crawler???? And what are the differences between a D15 starter and the H3 if there is? Just got an H3 that the nose cone has been broken and rewelded, the bushing is gone on the housing end, the armature shaft is worn on the end too, the bendix pretty worn out ... and the field coils in the housing are history... and no tag on it. Think it is time for a new starter, or a good used one. But need a good number to go by to buy one. Thanks. |
Just get the old one rebuilt. Steve can do it.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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