| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Sugarmaker 
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Shop/ Garage project!
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 8:58am |
Allis Folks, 10-27-19 Have begun initial discussions about the logistics and cost of building a new building with the one who pays the bills! She is no more than luke warm on this and would rather move to somewhere that already had a building for my junk and maybe warmer too!
The garage/ shop is not a new thought to me as my tractor herd has grown from zero to like 14 plus in 5 years after retirement. Guess I need a kick in the butt or a slap up along side the old noggin!
Several issues currently: - I have been working out of the attached garage. Translate: Need a place for oil, gas, grinding, and painting smells! And I dont keep a very tidy shop! - Have so many big toys now that need to be under cover. Translate: I buy things and rarely sell this stuff! (Yes I have a tractor and old stuff problem) - Could use a area large enough to hold my truck in the winter. Translate: I am getting darn tired of brooming 10 to 20 inches of snow off the big old Ford pickup! - Would like a storage area and a separate work shop area. Translate: Go crazy and build the right building which will seem too big, cost too much, and take forever to finish, but will be filled in a day! - Keep the garage/ shop separate to keep the dirt out of the storage area. Maybe a slider in between
So I just needed to vent! You guys always have good ideas, suggestions, and recommendations. I know in advance that very few if any members on here are going to say I need to downsize and sell everything and move to Florida and live in a trailer park and watch the bugs crawl in and out of the small air conditioned hobby shed out back!
Pictures of your shops and garages are more than welcome! I mean this section is titled Shops, Barns, Varmints and Trucks! (I think I missed the varmint thing in this thread but covered most of the rest  )
So here is the status: - picked out a potential site, - have cut the dead and dying trees down except for two. - talked to the township a year ago and have road set back = 65 feet I think? - had local lumber company drawing plans. Haven't heard back from them? - next door neighbor has the dozer, skid steer, and back hoe, and laser to do the site prep. - a rough plan has developed in form of sketchs for the foot print of a shop/garage. - funding? well its just money, hopefully the one who pays the bills can keep up? - materials? we its going to be expensive! Very expensive! - time line? Get started and plug away at it. Could be a two year project? Not unusual for me. - labor? Well I would like to do as much as I can to save some dollars of course. - type of construction considered: California style, sono tubes with short posts and wood frame foundation. Then conventional walls on top of that. - roof pitch: no more than 6/12. - materials? Probably 1/2 wafer board house wrapped, vinyl siding because it will have to look good. Maybe shingle roof too, as the other buildings are shingle. - Our township has minimal rules for building so that's a good thing. - would like to used attic rafter style to be able to squirrel away more stuff of course. -Building would be "T" shaped 32 x 48 (garage), with its peak running east west, with a 24 x 32 "(work shop) going to the north. Porches and lean to's optional. - lots of fill material (12- 16 inches) will need to be added for a base as it is a low spot in the yard. - location is in close proximity to the house. easy to get too. about 20 steps from the house and the sugarhouse. - no new drive ways, just blend into the existing drives. - Would like to have it insulated (walls/ ceiling) well enough to have heat in the shop area for some winter time projects. - minimum 10 foot ceilings. - three garage doors 10 foot wide, 2 - 3 man doors, several windows. - Grandson is a electrician so that may help on that portion of the work. - work shop portion will face away from the road so folks won't be able to see my messes like today!:)
its a dream! Or a nightmare! Maybe writing this down will help me figure it out?
Thanks for checking on me! Hope things are good in Orange land!
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 29 Oct 2019 at 9:01am
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Hubert (Ga)engine7
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Jackson Cnty,GA
Points: 6465
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 10:04am |
|
Sounds like you have a good plan already. Think I would consider Hardie siding over vinyl unless you need to match existing buildings. Floor heat or overhead radiant? Your biggest hurdle will be convincing your bill payer to loosen the purse strings.
|
|
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 10:18am |
My shop, TOO Small, Too confined but all could afford for $$ and space at time. 30D x 48L, 12' ceiling Full footer and six inch slab, 10 wide door narrow side(18x30 heated and cooled) 16' door wide side 29x29 Rough dimension. Man door either end, no rear doors or windows. 2x6 outer walls and should have made divider wall 2x6 but is 2x4. Has its own 200A electrical Service. Has a dedicated Bathroom with a shower.   
Edited by DMiller - 29 Oct 2019 at 10:20am
|
|
ACinSC
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Location: South Carolina
Points: 2955
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 10:26am |
|
Sure enjoy my little 26' X 26' shop . Have the green tractor in there now . The D 15 will be back in there soon as it's maiden voyage didn't go too well . My shop has a mini split for heat and A/C . Good luck with whatever you and the boss decide . Thanks
|
|
ACinSC
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Location: South Carolina
Points: 2955
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 10:28am |
|
Nice shop Dave !!
|
|
DanWi
Orange Level Access
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1919
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 12:24pm |
|
Go at least 12 side walls so you have clearance for 10 foot doors lights and any type of lift. your projects will take up space so allow for things such as drill press welding table areas depending on what you want to do. A big sink with hot and cold water, a friend said that is one of the things he likes about his shop you can wash your hands and whatever instead of running to the house. Heat tubes in the floor whether you use an outside boiler or a small water heater, Set the thermostat down to 55 and when everything including the floor is warm it is good for working. Overhead storage is good, it can get to easy to use a shop for storage and lose its ability to be a shop. You may even want to go a little taller in the cold portion to include more over head storage. Adding a few feet to height doesn't usually cost a lot. We have a 60 x 100 shed, with a wall at 30 feet so our shop is 60 ft deep and a 10 foot door in the divider wall to the cold storage.
|
|
john(MI)
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9262
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 1:21pm |
|
Friends shop faces north, it's very undesirable, all year! If the wife drives, tell her she will now have a garage for her to park in. Incentive!!
|
|
D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
|
|
cabinhollow
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Location: SEKY
Points: 327
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 1:41pm |
Here is a picture of the west end of my shop. 60x120 The door is 24' wide. The NE corner/end has 9' of fill. 12' walls As soon as I got it built, the redhead claimed 2000 sqft for her house. She does let me live there also, so it not to bad. 
|
|
PaulB
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 5086
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 2:17pm |
Rules for building a shed/Garage.
#1 how ever big you think it needs to be, double that.
#2 By the time it's built, it will be too small. #3 Revise your plans and return to step #1  |
|
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 7:47pm |
Folks, Thanks for the pictures, suggestions and humor! Ok your making me think about the 12 foot ceilings and 10 foot high doors!
Weather note: Most of our severe winter weather comes from the west. We have no protection between us and Cleveland 90 miles away. Yea not even a tree! (I just cut down the small dead ash that was at the west end of our yard.) Great sunsets, but we get extreme winds and blizzard conditions on this hill. Lots of drifting snow too! The work area facing to the north might be rough in the winter, but would be shaded in the summer. Called the township. Yes road setback is 65 feet from center to eves of building. Water shed permit required. Building permit approved in a few days. Need to call 811 before going 6 inches deep. Still thinking as usual! I had not thought about the heat in the floor but I know folks that have it really like it. Sure would be nice to have a warm place to work! You guys have some very nice work areas! Almost to nice to work in! I like the interior walls in the steel panels! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 29 Oct 2019 at 7:55pm
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 87582
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Oct 2019 at 9:13pm |
We tried to go cheaper at the sons house. Built a 3 sided shed open on the south... 40 ft long and 24 ft deep... You can park two tractors one behind the other in 4 different bays, 10 ft wide... Just a tin building with 10 ft walls... Very economical... Never added doors, its been 4 years......... NEXT you need a shop to work in. It should be insulated, heated, and sized for your needs. That can be a SEPERATE building if your ground / slope makes it easier to layout.... they can be L shaped, back to back, or 50 ft apart... You don't need to "get into the storage building" every day, but you do need the shop.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24646
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 6:25am |
BEFORE the floor gets poured.... dig deep trench from house to your new doghouse. You'll need TWO 4" conduits from house for hydro and water and telephone and and internet and alarm and cable TV. It's easy NOW to dig and lay the pipes..PITB later. definitely lay PEX in to the floor ! Better to do it NOW and not use it for a year or 2, then wish later...man I should have dun it...... Consider using external conduit for power instead of burying wires in walls, that mice WILL find. It also keeps place 'tighter' heat and wind wise... Every,yes, every electrical outlet should be 2- receptacles NOT 1 ! Costs mybe $2, saves the pain when you have trouble light, extension cord,radio AND battery charger needing juice !
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 7:03am |
 PaulB wrote:
Rules for building a shed/Garage.
#1 how ever big you think it needs to be, double that.
#2Â By the time it's built, it will be too small. Â #3 Revise your plans and return to step #1 Â |
I Knew that, did NOT take it to heart!! Now I pay the price!! I also did not embed PEX but should have on the shop, still kick myself there and in the House basement. We have plenty of available dry dead timber for heating just don't use it, an outside wood burner would have made it easy to keep warmer. May still do a External Forced Air wood burner at the Shop. As to Dimensions, if had to Do Over would have been 40x60 and 16' ceilings Minimum 12'T doors. Possibly support structure IN Walls for a rolling trolley beam or at least anchor points for a free standing one. PEX in floor and possibly Red Iron frame instead of wood. Definitely a bathroom with connections to House services as Phone and Net, the current shop of ours has the well support systems in it, only a water line to the house and softener in the house.
Edited by DMiller - 30 Oct 2019 at 7:12am
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 7:41am |
Folks, Very good suggestions! I have thought about most of the options. Like two buildings vs one do-it all building. I have some room in other areas and a storage building would solve some of my immediate needs too. Yes stuff can just set there for months. A work shop, Yes, your in and out many times. Heat and water would be good additions to any shop! Good thoughts on the floor heating. And I would love to have a 1 ton overhead crane running the length of the building! Man that would be handy!
Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 7:45am |
jaybmiller wrote:
BEFORE the floor gets poured.... dig deep trench from house to your new doghouse. You'll need TWO 4" conduits from house for hydro and water and telephone and and internet and alarm and cable TV. It's easy NOW to dig and lay the pipes..PITB later. definitely lay PEX in to the floor ! Better to do it NOW and not use it for a year or 2, then wish later...man I should have dun it...... Consider using external conduit for power instead of burying wires in walls, that mice WILL find. It also keeps place 'tighter' heat and wind wise... Every,yes, every electrical outlet should be 2- receptacles NOT 1 ! Costs mybe $2, saves the pain when you have trouble light, extension cord,radio AND battery charger needing juice !
|
Jayb, Yes could be a "new dog house" Hoping I dont have to stay in one of those things Cabin hollow built! The walls wold be tighter with conduit on the inside, Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
ac hunter
Orange Level
Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Points: 1051
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 7:51am |
You NEED a shop. I would agree with the 12 ft. ceiling; have 2 buildings that way and wouldn't want any less. Remember that you will have the perimeter of the shop area filled with work benches, parts washer, air compressor and other stuff so this decreased the width of the area you have to work in. I like my painted steel, especially the roof; never have to replace it, at least in my lifetime. Also make sure you have enough elevation for the floor. The outside will eventually get higher with gravel additions and you don't want a big rain to invade the interior. Use something very white for the interior so you reflect as much light as possible and have plenty of lights. Sounds like you have a pretty good plan going already. Like the others said, it's never big enough, but you can always add on later if you plan for that possibility. Hope you get started soon. We added a storage shed that was started exactly a year ago this week and I got to work in there all winter. Good luck.
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 8:18am |
ac, Thanks! One of the issues I have is that this building is in front of my other two buildings (house and sugarhouse) And I want it to look decent and kind of fit in too. I know that sounds weird but I dont want it to look like a ...... Ok I dont have the look in my head. Yes the features of the high ceilings described would allow me to get into even more bigger, larger, more expensive, projects!:)
And I have a need for both storage for rolling stock and need to get out of the house garage with my seemingly continued string of projects!
More talk and less action on this end right now!
Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Stan IL&TN
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
Points: 6730
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 11:36am |
|
Not a big fan of windows. They take up wall space. Allow cold in and it's an easy entrance for some low life. If you need the light, put more lights in.
|
|
1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
|
|
ACinSC
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Location: South Carolina
Points: 2955
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 12:11pm |
|
Didn't put any windows in my little shop other than in the man door and the garage door . Also has 10' walls . Thanks
|
|
cabinhollow
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Location: SEKY
Points: 327
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 12:18pm |
Here is my overhead crane. 30' long It is setup to load 5'x10' sheets on to my plasma table. 
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24646
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 12:20pm |
get some 1/4 square paper and layout existing buildings and laneways, marking North on it too. Cutout the new building from construction paper and place on your 'plot of land'. Also make some tractors and implements, whatever you think will
be in the area. NOW see if it's THE location. Easier to move pieces of paper than real buildings ! You can also see about WHERE doors are best placed as what you 'think' and reality can be (are) different !! I have 5 south facing windows on wife's garage/my shop and they are NICE. Can tell if it's sunny or raining ( or dark...),also let's in FREE warmth.....
Hmm, kinda early, but think about gutters and downspouts. I use shop water to water the gardens....warm,soft ,FREE rainwater. Have 4,000gal of storage, lasts all summer !
Jay
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
BrianC
Orange Level Access
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Location: New York
Points: 1619
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 12:30pm |
|
Should/must concrete floors be insulated? How?
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 1:13pm |
Great suggestions guys! I seen some new construction using 2 inch layer of Styrofoam under 4 inches of concrete. They even put it on the building perimeter to reduce deep frost damage.
Still thinking and procrastinating, which I am very good at!
Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 10866
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 at 1:36pm |
|
Put plastic and at least 1" styrofoam under the cement, 2" will hold heat better and on the storage part put plastic under the cement it keep the moister from coming up through in the winter. I love my raidiant floor heat your legs and feet don't get as tired standing on it working and you don't loose all your heat when you open the door
|
|
ac hunter
Orange Level
Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Points: 1051
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 8:45am |
|
Double amen on the plastic. My first building was put up 30 years ago and I was at work when they poured the floor. Told the concrete guy to put plastic down. Later found out he "forgot". Have been aggravated at him ever since. The ground is well drained but moisture still comes up through the concrete and need to run a dehumidifier all summer.
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8477
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 9:06am |
Folks, I have hemmed and hawed on this building issue for years and years!
Its like having the perfect child, with all the good traits and none of the bad! Probably never going to happen! But if you dont get started, you wont have any at all!
Just tring to put it in perspective!
Just a three bay 30 x 36 storage building with gravel floor back in the corner of my lot would be way better than the little 10 x 12 junk shed there now. That would be a south facing open shed that could have sliding doors?
Thanks for all the support and good ideas too! I do appreciate all the input! Dreary and raining today. Snow is on its way. Perfect!
Here is Cooper Standing where the ideal T shaped shop/ garage might be. But behind him to the left is the red shed that needs removed and could be the site for a less expensive pole type storage building. Might be able to squeeze a 30 x 36 ish in that corner? My property only goes about 10 feet behind this old red building.
Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Kenny L.
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: NEIOWA
Points: 1349
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 11:24pm |
Chris, building a shop is like building a house it take the first two to figure everything out and the third one will almost be what you want, just build it and move on. Just my two cents.
|
|
shameless dude
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 1:22am |
|
I pour my own crete, and when doing the outer 6 foot areas where tool boxes and work tables and other tools/storage will be along the walls I placed 2 inch 4x8 sheets of foam board under the concrete. I mix fiberglass in the crete while mixing it. frost will travel up to 4 ft inside under the outside walls in cold climates. there is about 2 inches of crete over the foam boards, with the fiberglass in it, it has never cracked yet, been there 20 plus years. the floor don't need to be as thick as the shop space/work area to just hold up tool boxes and such. do what ever makes you happy! at the time, I couldn't afford heating tubes in the floor, but now if I need to lay on the floor, I lay on old carpet I salvaged from a dumpster in town. (no pet stains) and when it gets dirty/oily, I throw it in the burn pile.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33857
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 6:20am |
|
Came to the Conclusion a 40x60 MIGHT not be big enough after considerations. If deal any with Trailers of any length a 50 x 80 with END doors(Pull thru) and 16' interior height is a Necessity, then set side doors and Heated section workshop(s) to one or two corners. I try to separate wood working and metal shops so do not dust metal shaping tools and no metal slivers impaled onto wood, also lessens fire chances some.
Edited by DMiller - 01 Nov 2019 at 6:20am
|
|
LeonR2013
Orange Level
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 3:40pm |
|
There is no question that you need heavy plastic under you floor. I've done it for years and haven't had a failure yet. It is a must. Leon
|
|
