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Gary Burnett 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 2854
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 Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 10:38am |
If you want to pull that size AC I'd get a WC, 9 out of 10 times I've seen a WC in the Same class
as a WD/WD45 the WC was ahead of them.Plus a WC will go into the 3000 lb class.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8168
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 9:14am |
Carl, Dr Allis and folks, I have seen similar things in the pulls. Neighbor has a WD tractor that he bought and it was "set up" for pulling and had been pulled years ago. Has a few items removed so that he can move 150 lbs of weight around. He is in the 3500 lb class. He wins or places consistently. No idea what was done to the engine or drive line. (still has hand clutch) He has the old style Firestone tires with full tread. That engine has plenty of power. My grandson with his old bone stock WD is usually close to him. sometimes beats him on the right track conditions. We seen a BIG improvement in Nics tractor when we went to the Crop Max 14.9-28 rears when pulling on a wet track. His is a old worn WD engine that still runs good. On a power track you can see the difference in the two tractors at the end of the pull. I think Dr Allis summarized it very well. Track conditions, tire type, and weight balancing, are probably the first things to consider. Track conditions you dont have much control over. But sometimes you can pick a spot on the track and get a little more distance/ traction. Weight balancing seems to be somewhat of a art. I am pretty new to that part of the game. I see other tractors that are real front end light. Some tractors seem to do well even if the front wheels are off the ground most of pull. I know this changes the hitch height retaliative to the sled too. Is there a magic balancing combo for the old WD's? We usually get beat by some red tractors, or maybe a Oliver. As you can see I have way more questions than answers. Typing it in here and making it happen on the track are worlds apart! Hoping we can gain a little bit to make these old Allis tractors move up a little in the classes. I will try to share items that I learn and maybe it will help others. The good news we (our small pulling group of orange tractor owners) are, having fun, learning about the game, getting more competitive.
Keep in mind I don't have a tractor specifically for this hobby yet! Have just been skirting around the edges with some old Allis tractors I drug home.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 19593
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 5:56am |
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A stock WD engine had 34 HP at the PTO. A stock WD45 had 43. The D-17 at 1650 RPM without power steering would have been 55 or 56 HP. If you are pulling in low gear and the tractors that are beating you are running faster than you are (more than 3 MPH), they may well have 70 or 80 or 100 HP. More HP in a tractor that isn't weighted/balanced correctly doesn't win. The drawbar issue is easily addressed. Some rear tires (un-cut) are naturally better than others because of their lug design and bar profile wear and they have to have the proper air pressure for the best possible traction. To blame the tractor for not winning isn't really fair when there are too many other things that may not be as good as your competition. The tractor in question is intended for "farm stock" classes and that's what it pretty much would be. Equivalent HP to a WD45 with M&W pistons in it, which would be "farm stock".
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Gary Burnett
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Points: 2854
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 2:06am |
 Carl(NWWI) wrote:
I’ve done 38” rubber, WD pistons in a gleaner block, bigger carb, pulling cam and open rpm and I still can’t win. Idk if the tractors I pull against are more built then what everyone else pulls against or what. I’ve never understood the hype of the gleaner engine in the WD’s, Unless my cam isn’t done correctly but sure doesn’t perform like everyone says they do. |
The WD/WD45 hitch set up just doesn't doesn't work too well for pulling a weight transfer sled.The Oliver and Cockshutt tractors have the advantage in that regard plus they are easier to upgrade the HP.
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Carl(NWWI)
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: NW WI
Points: 948
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 12:21am |
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I’ve done 38” rubber, WD pistons in a gleaner block, bigger carb, pulling cam and open rpm and I still can’t win. Idk if the tractors I pull against are more built then what everyone else pulls against or what. I’ve never understood the hype of the gleaner engine in the WD’s, Unless my cam isn’t done correctly but sure doesn’t perform like everyone says they do.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:39pm |
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38 inch rear rubber was available as an option for the WD45 and then use low gear with the G-226 engine. A winning combination !!
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8168
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:19pm |
Ctucker, Yes that is a concern. We have the biggest tires allowed on the WD and the 45 that we pull 14.9-28. Of course we are competing against lots of tractors with 38 inch rubber. That is for the antique classes 3500, 4000 and 4500 lb. But the Farm stock events which are getting more popular, don't seem to have the tire restrictions so there could be a opportunity for increased tire size. Of course every one else is doing the same. Just a game of catch up and then see how your machine does. This may need to be moved into the Pulling Section if we get much more detailed about this pulling stuff?  Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 19 Sep 2019 at 8:45am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22810
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 4:44pm |
Sugarmaker wrote:
The additional HP might be desired, but I am having problems getting it to the ground on the current tractors. |
You need to check with your local pulling club(s) and see what size rear tires they would allow. Bigger diameter tires will help getting more ground contact.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 3:18pm |
Dr Allis, John, Folks, Thanks for the information on the Gleaner engine differences compared to the WD. Would be just another toy in the big sandbox! The additional HP might be desired, but I am having problems getting it to the ground on the current tractors. This might be a dedicated tractor for competition, as the one I just completed it pretty much stock. May try to look at the tractor in next few weeks? As is, it still would need some changes. Could be a new tractor project to either get me in more trouble or keep me out of some, depending on your view point! If something happens I will get some pictures up too. Regards,
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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john(MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9263
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 12:57pm |
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The old parts are required for the engine to fit and operate correctly. It is just a D17 engine, so a few more horsepower and a newer engine. The governor must be readjusted to run like a tractor rather than hi rpm the combine uses. If I had a WD/45 I really liked and wanted to keep, but the engine was shot, I would definetely go for this engine.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 19593
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 12:25pm |
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I was told many years ago, by a retired AC Dealer (he would be 95 today if still living) that at a certain point in time after 1957 (probably the early 60's), the W-series engines (W-201 and W-226) were discontinued and you were forced into purchasing a new G-226 as a Manufacturers replacement engine. At the same time, you could no longer buy a new W-series block and were subbed up to the G-226 block AND CRANKSHAFT. The NATPA organization allows the newer engine in an old WC or WD. You will gain about 6 HP @1400 RPM over a bone stock WD45. You will gain 6 more HP @1650 RPM for a total of 12 HP.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 8:15am |
Yes I changed the thread title, sorry for any confusion! Was "WD with combine engine project". Trying to confuse, gather information, and learn all at the same time, as usual! For those following, you can pick up on page 2. Regards, Chris
Folks, I was looking at a WD that has had a combine engine transplanted in it. What are the pros and cons of this combination? Looks like some of the WD parts may have been added back on to get it up and running. I know that some of the local antique tractor pulls may frown on this combination since its not stock. I understand that the combine engine may have a little more horse power than a WD and or WD45. Any thoughts are welcome. My thoughts would be that it might make a tractor to set up and just have as a pulling tractor. Heavens knows I have enough other tractors already! I dont really need another project but this combo looked interesting. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 06 Oct 2019 at 9:02pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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