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captaindana 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
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 Topic: Help 185 injection pump?
Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 6:45am |
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Hey guys here's my latest issue I need help with. On our older 185D serial number 3021D, it runs perfectly. However sometimes lately it will start and then idle back and quit running. Two days ago I started it in the morning and all was normal. Oil press came up on gauge, red light out, 74 degrees, put in second gear low to drive out of the shed at 1200 rpm' and it idled back and quit like I shut the fuel off. It did the same yesterday after mowing and raking for many hours. I shut her down, got a sub out of the fridge, got back on and she cranked and cranked but wouldn't start. I even hit the starting fluid button and it wouldn't start! Five mins later I tried again and it started. Fuel bowl is spotless, always has been. Fuel filter has 45 hours on it. I'm thinking of changing the fuel filter and seeing how the flow is when I bleed it. What else am I missing? No leaks, vented cap, tank is topped off every day, runs perfectly other than this start up issue. Thanks! Dana
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana
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injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 7:25am |
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return in pump is plugging up from the internal flex ring breaking down. Time for service when you can be down. Knock the ball out and blow out the return line to get by for a few weeks, then plan on servicing the pump.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 7:30am |
To me, it sounds like you have a piece of foreign material that is sucking down over the fuel outlet inside the fuel tank. After it sits for a while, I think it gets caught in the top of the sediment bowl, depriving the engine of fuel. If it's something with some buoyancy, it could be floating off when the engine is off and there is no suction. The first thing I would try is to drain the tank, remove the sediment bowl and completely clean the inside of the tank. If you have one of those (inexpensive) tiny cameras that plug into your smart phone, you could look over the inside of the tank before refilling.
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 12:43pm |
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I believe to test the flex ring theory,you can loosen the screws on timing window to relieve internal pressure(same result as knocking ball out of return fitting) and see if it starts and runs. You may even get tiny particals of flex ring in fuel as you bleed window.If pump is original,pretty sure bet it's the flex ring.
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darrel in ND
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 6:55pm |
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Send the pump to Ed! Darrel
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captaindana
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Location: Fort Plain, NY
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 8:07pm |
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Thanks y'all! I changed the fuel filter. When I unscrewed it after sitting 12 hours I noticed it was not full, maybe it was an inch down from the threads. IDK if that's normal but it sure doesn't seem so. I opened the shut off valve and watched the fuel flow seemed good. I filled the new filter with fuel, installed and bled. I tightened the seal on the shut off valve but it prolly was ok. No leaks anywhere. Hit the starter and she started and ran great for the next 3 hours mowing and 3 hours raking. We shall see. Did 705 bales of second cut today and maybe 2500 to go. Will keep ya informed. Thanks for the great support!! Dana
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Blue Skies and Tail Winds
Dana
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 8:55pm |
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a
Edited by WF owner - 24 Aug 2018 at 8:58pm
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WF owner
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Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 8:56pm |
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Ed forgets more daily, than I will ever know about pumps, but it seems odd to me that it would run ok for hours if the flex ring was coming apart.
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KJCHRIS
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Location: WC Iowa
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Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 1:51am |
When it stalls, "immediately" open the bleeder on top of fuel filter base. As filter is relatively new, we'll assume it's OK; a. IF "NO" fuel comes out bleeder in 2 - 5 seconds you have a clog either in tank, fuel cap, sediment bowl, or fuel line from sediment bowl to filter. b. IF fuel comes out within 2 - 5 seconds follow Ed's advice. Several years ago, worked on AC-200 and IH 856 from same owner that both had black stringy stuff growing in tanks, would clog the inlet to sediment bowl, had gotten to where occasionally he'd have to use compressed air to blow backwards thru fuel line to open them. And in his 200 gallon stand tank, which also did not have a filter. Tractors had the symptom you describe. Was a real pain removing and cleaning tanks and lines.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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injpumpEd
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Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:17am |
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The broken flex ring and dying issue is a very common issue. The fuel starving on the inlet side usually will require more cranking to get things bled again if it indeed starved on the inlet side. The plugged return issue can allow it to run quite a while without issue, but then once it starts doing it, it will keep doing it, with run times getting shorter and shorter. When it does this, try running it with the pump timing cover loosened, to allow pressure to bleed off. If it continues to run then, it's a plugged return. If it is continuing to run, be very cautious, they can blow the pump driveshaft seal, and it will then be bleeding the pressure off by dumping fuel into the crankcase. Watch your oil level close!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:19am |
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I had similar issues on my 180D AFTER having an injector pump failed, once running very well did so for around three months then got a load of crappy fuel. There is a plastic mesh screen above the sediment bowl on the tank, shut the fuel off, remove and clean that screen.
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AndrewMandel
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Joined: 02 Oct 2021
Location: California
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Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 11:45am |
 injpumpEd wrote:
return in pump is plugging up from the internal flex ring breaking down. Time for service when you can be down. Knock the ball out and blow out the return line to get by for a few weeks, then plan on servicing the pump. |
Ed, How much will it cost me for you to rebuild the injection pump? AC 185 Your company name and location? Thanks, Andrew
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 3:13pm |
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Very typical Roosa DB rebuilds in my shop run around 700-900. if it's nasty inside full of rust, or major components worn or damaged (hyd head, cam ring, housing, levers) all adds to the price. I perform all the updates as well. I'm in northern IL. Name is in my signature.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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