improving steering on HD16dc

Hello everyone. A request for information relative to the steering on my HD16DC.

Had my tractor out this weekend after all repairs mechanically have been done. Notice my steering was pretty sluggish, and more so than prior to changing filters and fluids. Without pushing a load or going up a grade the steering levels have no impact. With the corresponding foot brake pedal depressed, I have to really stomp on the pedal and hold for the back to engage. Getting out of the barn was tricky as in first gear and low idle, was a little scary getting it out the door. Only 2 foot on each side of the blade to get it out the door.

Questions:

1. Is it possible to have air in the lines from filter and fluid change? If so what is best way to bleed that out?
    Would cracking the 1/4" plug while running help to bleed out air?
2. I have not adjusted the actual brake bands but will do so as I have the manual.
3. Could brake linkage be an issue such as being out of spec and needing to be adjusted?

With the tractor running at medium RPM's and in low gear, with steering level pulled back and corresponding pedal being pushed on, it does nothing at first and then the brake pedal kicks in. Not sure why that lapse of time is all about.

Thank you

CAL(KS) wrote: is your machine dry or wet clutch?  I cant remember what setup you have, but the steering systems are a little different.  the early system easily bleeds itself I never have any trouble. I was thinking you had the dry clutches which could just be  a little grabby from sitting.  when I got mine it was similar but now will turn slightly just going straight no load.     if the steering lever goes down right away without trouble your delay I is not hyd pressure but slow clutch release.  those disk teeth can wear into the drum and have difficulty moving.  bump the brake a couple times can help it move it and release easier

Thank you Cal for jumping on this so quickly. My tractor is listed as a Dry Clutch. You hit on something that I noticed. When pushing on foot brake with steering level pulled, if I held the peddle down hard it didn't do anything but if I bumped the brake peddle a couple of time then it would grab well. Also, not sure if this was a factor but I did not have the engine at a fast rev. Higher than idle but not 100%. I would say 50% power. I am going to adjust the brake bands per manual, then all the linkage per the manual and then try bleeding the system to see if all of that helps. Also, as I only had the tractor out for the first time since last fall, I want to run it around to get everything moving and see if that helps loosen it up.

Any suggestion on how to bleed the system? I recall Morten indicated he did a steering system bleed and also pulled off the filter in the rear tranny and cleaned that up and helped him a ton. I do not have remote pressure gauge to check each filter canister to see what kind of pressure I have but will invest in that soon.

Thank you again. engine is running strong and track, which I spent a lot of time on are perfectly adjusted in my opinion. Pulled the Hood off, for sand and paint as well.

Great explanation Cal. Very much appreciated. I may be over reacting so will not jump off any ledges till I go through the steps of brake adjustment and all linkages. I am going to follow the book to test the steering pressure to be sure I am adjusted correctly and then take it from there.

I think you will enjoy the pusher fan. Mine really keeps that engine heat off off you. Great in the summer, but miss some of the winter benefits.

Than you again and I will report back on my further testing and adjusting.

You will like the deceleration pedal. Came standard with my 16DC. Took a little getting used to as stepping on the pedal does opposite as a normal acceleration pedal. Great for shifting and working in close quarters.

Thank you very much R.Kyle.

I was wrong when telling Cal I had dry clutch. My transmission is a dry clutch and my steering clutches are wet or hydraulic.

Sorry Cal.

Was confused when thinking about clutch and didnt think about steering clutches.

Duh

Clutch discs are probably heat warped but with brakes application will still steer would live with that.

Well team and advisors,, I am going to be draining every drop of tranny/steering fluid. I already changed out the two steering canisters in the front of the engine but am also going to drop the rear belly pan, and take out the tranny sump filter and check and clean it up.

When I refill fluid, if I can find it,, your opinions on replacing with Type A ATF fluid or a current Hytran product.

I have heard a few folks on this forum use ATF fluid and if so is that Mercron,Dexron?

Thank you

Type A was predominantly used for Winter, My 7G shows that for the power shift but 10W is the preferred. A Hytrans would be a better choice.

Type A ATF was Whale Oil replaced by Dextron but NOT advised for our old ACs

DMiller wrote: Type A was predominantly used for Winter, My 7G shows that for the power shift but 10W is the preferred. A Hytrans would be a better choice. Type A ATF was Whale Oil replaced by Dextron but NOT advised for our old ACs

Thank you DMiller. Hy Tran 10w it is. Do you have a brand preference?

jerbob wrote: DMiller wrote: Type A was predominantly used for Winter, My 7G shows that for the power shift but 10W is the preferred. A Hytrans would be a better choice. Type A ATF was Whale Oil replaced by Dextron but NOT advised for our old ACs Thank you DMiller. Hy Tran 10w it is. Do you have a brand preference?

No specific brands but I am using a MFA GP Hydraulic 10W with good results. Is purple in color.

jerry,  on the farm we use Cenex HTB.  Dad has it in bulk and its available at our local coops in 2.5 gallon jugs.  Should be available in Orchelens or TSC type stores i would think.  its not liquid gold but its not cheap stuff either.  It meets all brand specs for hytran except a few specific applications,  but i would use what is available in your area at a reasonable price.  we use this stuff in equipment from 1937-2007

Update on steering. On a whim, I had a new 2.5 gallon jug of HyTran fluid in the shop. I had to 16dc out last night and noticed the dip stick showed only a small amount of fluid in stick when cold, however I was checking it when it has been warmed up and it showed full.

I dumped in the fluid and to my pleasant surprise, the foot brakes worked so much better. Did not have to pump they or hold down for 20 seconds before a track would grab. They were a huge improvement. Nothing yet with steering levers yet but was very pleased the foot activated brakes worked 100% better.

I am adding more oil today to bring level up on a cold engine and see if the improvement continues. I feel like an idiot of my poor old tractor was just low on fluid.

Thank you everyone for help and advise and I will will keep y'all posted. DUHHHHHH!!   

Well more of the story on why my 16 would not turn.

Low fluid level is my feeling at this point. Like a Dolt,,, and don't everyone agree all at once, I fell into the trap of looking for something mechanically wrong in the steering system when in fact, I was checking the fluid level when warm and it showed in the range correctly. Cold, no fluid showed on the dip stick. I put in 5 gallons of HyTran and now cold has it showing in the operating range. The foot brakes work like a champ and engage with a light touch. A firmer touch locks the track down easily.

To test the steering levers, I back bladed my access road to one of my fields and with no foot brakes action, the steering lever would steer the tractor well. Just while blade was in float and going in reverse. Im sure that under load it will be fine.

Still going to adjust all linkage to spec and brake bands per manual and will also check pressure at each steering filter connection for proper PSI. At idle book says 420 to 430psi and at high idle 450 to 550.

Thanking everyone whom jumped on this thread to offer help, opinion and advise. I listened to all of your and in the end, it was the simplest solution I was overlooking.

Happy Fathers Day to all you DADS on this great forum.