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twowheels 
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 Topic: WD45 with pitted cylinder walls
Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 1:21pm |
I'm new to old tractors for the most part but I have owned her for 3 years now and it's time to give her some love.
The main reason I tore into her is that I would only get an hour before fowling out the #3 plug
with oil, otherwise she ran pretty well. I did a compression check before pulling the head and had 125-130 in all cylinders except #3 witch was 142(oil soaked rings?), and all held pressure for over a minute. After I pulled the head I started thinking that my oil problem may be from the cylinder walls and rings due to the amount of pitting and scouring there is. The exhaust valve on #3 has lots of carbon/oil scudge, but when I compress the valves to look at the mating surfaces they look mostly dry. This thing only gets used 50 hours a year or so and the rear rims are badly rusted and front tires are marginal so I hate to throw a boat load of $$$$ at it. If I need to do a total overhaul I will probably put the new valves and springs in the head and put it back together and run it until I have the cash to do it all at once.
Is there a way to tell if the oil is coming from the valves vs the rings? Can you bore the existing cylinders out say .050" and put oversized rings? The cylinders are still at 4" so it seems like there should be enough material there but I am no expert.
Thank you in advance, any help would be appreciated.
I cant figure out how to post pictures yet but here is a link cylinder walls https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4rAk1afSqcGYUo3T3NBb21lUFk
Head https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4rAk1afSqcGbEI1d3NISG1NWm8
the rest of the pictures https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4rAk1afSqcGN0ZRdlkzQ3BzSFE
Edited by twowheels - 19 Mar 2016 at 1:47pm
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 2:38pm |
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At this point you are pretty much already down the rabbit hole. You may have a sticking or broken oil ring on #3. Before I tore it down I would have added sea foam or MMO to the oil and ran it hard for a couple of hours hoping it was a stuck ring. I would pull #3 piston and inspect the rings. You could clean it up, hone that cylinder and install new rings and hope for the best. You cannot bore out the liner. They are a wet sleeve and sold as a kit with matching pistons. This saved time back in the day so that a machine shop would not be required to get the tractor back in the field.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 4:24pm |
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I think that is a good suggestion. After all at this point you're not planning to restore it. And if you want to stop it fowling that plug, put a chain saw plug in that one hole. After all they're made to fire in oil. Did it to a 45 that someone had put the pistons in backwards and wrist pins had worn grooves in the liners like you wouldn't believe. Never fowled another plug until I got the time to rebuild it. The plug to use fits a XL 923 Homelite. Leon Cmo
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 5:40pm |
If that bucket of oil is what came out of it, I would definitely change out the core plugs in the head while you have it off. Compression wise, it should be good to go for another 20 years. If there was antifreeze in the coolant and it has been getting into the oil, the bearings in the bottom end may not last long? 
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twowheels
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Posted: 20 Mar 2016 at 8:03am |
Ahh, good idea using a chainsaw plug. I would like to properly fix the motor at some point but I also don't want to get halfway in and start counting pennies to finish it up or worse yet have it sit in my garage for 6mo. all torn down. The oil is from the power steering, just as horrifying! I plan on flushing that out the best I can before putting it back together. I will get the head torn apart today and check in with some pictures later. Thanks for the info!
oh and I have only seen rings sold as a 4 or 6 piston set, can you buy rings for just one cylinder? I have seen a single cylinder/sleeve package.
Edited by twowheels - 20 Mar 2016 at 8:30am
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 6:37am |
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Yes, you can buy one plug and if they try to tell you different go somewhere else. But it really won't hurt if you put all four in.
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twowheels
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 6:40am |
 LeonR2013 wrote:
Yes, you can buy one plug and if they try to tell you different go somewhere else. But it really won't hurt if you put all four in. |
Actually was wondering if you could buy rings for just one cylinder?
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 6:52am |
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I went up and reread your last post and I agree with Tucker. I really don"t think you need rings either. Pull the valve cover, put some cardboard around the valve train, start it and see where all the oil is coming from. I wouldn,t be surprised the valve guides are real bad and that is where some of the oil is going. If the cork plugs are bad or gone in the rocker shaft this would flood the top of the head and cause bad guides to leak worse. However, the chain saw plug will solve your immediate problem.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 6:59am |
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Dang it! I rereread post and saw you was talking about one set of rings. I've always been able to, but who knows this day and age. Three hours sleep doesn't do my brain much good. Take a lot more than that. Leon R Cmo
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twowheels
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 7:15am |
LeonR2013 wrote:
I went up and reread your last post and I agree with Tucker. I really don"t think you need rings either. Pull the valve cover, put some cardboard around the valve train, start it and see where all the oil is coming from. I wouldn,t be surprised the valve guides are real bad and that is where some of the oil is going. If the cork plugs are bad or gone in the rocker shaft this would flood the top of the head and cause bad guides to leak worse. However, the chain saw plug will solve your immediate problem. |
Cork Plugs? I didn't see anything like that, that could be a clue. I have removed the valves and springs and will be powerwashing it today and getting the old valve guides out and new one's pressed in. Thanks again for the info!
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TomMN
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 8:28am |
The WC used cork plugs on the ends of the rocker arm shaft, I don't know if the WD45 still used them or if the ends were plugged some other way. Here is a picture of what my new corks looked like.
Being a wine maker I had corks and just trimmed one down to make one for each end.
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twowheels
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 8:35am |
TomMN wrote:
The WC used cork plugs on the ends of the rocker arm shaft, I don't know if the WD45 still used them or if the ends were plugged some other way. Here is a picture of what my new corks looked like.
Being a wine maker I had corks and just trimmed one down to make one for each end. |
Oh, just looked at my pictures and unless there is something behind the cotter pin on mine those were missing. I will take a closer look when I get home tonight!
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 9:55am |
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my original corks are in behind the cotter pin.Thats what keeps them there
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TomMN
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 10:51am |
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One of mine was gone when I opened things up, pieces of the cotter pin and cork were laying in the goo on top. The other one was still there but old and loose so I replaced them both. There is a hole in the shaft for each rocker arm to get oiled so the cork shouldn't go in too far to plug the first hole. I let the corks stick out and drilled it so the cotter pin goes through it. I don't know what a NOS cork would look like it just needs to plug the end so the oil goes where it is supposed to and not just run out the end of the tube.
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B26240
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Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 3:57pm |
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Tom; again you come thru with great pictures!! Was that motor stuck at some point? Reason I ask is you talk about "pitted cylinder walls"
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corbinstein
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 6:37am |
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another good use for a wine cork!
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twowheels
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 8:29am |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
my original corks are in behind the cotter pin.Thats what keeps them there |
I checked last night and I do have corks or something behind that cotter pin although I may pull it and replace it with new ones.
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twowheels
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 8:39am |
B26240 wrote:
Tom; again you come thru with great pictures!! Was that motor stuck at some point? Reason I ask is you talk about "pitted cylinder walls" |
It wouldn't surprise me if she did sit at one point, I have only had it for 3yrs. I try and start it at least once a mouth and let it warm up all the way. I was speaking with a guy in our machine shop and he had the same question about it sitting and the pitted cylinders. I am going to get the valve seats ground as they are shot, the shop by me is only going to charge $60 and that isn't even worth my time. Looks like am heading down that "Rabbit Hole" 
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 8:45am |
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If the valve guides are wore so the valve can slop around inside the guide, it would be well worth the money to spend $100 on a valve set which would include new valves, guides and springs. Then the money spent grinding the seats won't be wasted and she'll start and run MUCH better with less chance of fouling plugs. JMO
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twowheels
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 9:02am |
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
If the valve guides are wore so the valve can slop around inside the guide, it would be well worth the money to spend $100 on a valve set which would include new valves, guides and springs. Then the money spent grinding the seats won't be wasted and she'll start and run MUCH better with less chance of fouling plugs. JMO |
I did get the kit and got the new guides put in last night. http://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4rAk1afSqcGaVIwN1k0WmZOR0U
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 4:15pm |
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 22 Mar 2016 at 6:10pm
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 9:30pm |
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That's very good! It will run for many years with no trouble on the top and if you later have to do the liners at least you won't have to fool with the head. And I really would look at those bearings. Also you need to check your rocker arms to see how loose they are, and worn at the valve stem contact point. Leon R Cmo
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 9:52pm |
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Pulling that one piston and ringing it is a good idea. I posted a few days ago about dry ringing engines. Don't know where it's at now but it really does work. That's the only way I've done it for the last 50 yrs. with perfect success. Do Not deglaze the cylinder. If you do hone it, then you'll have to oil the piston and rings in the normal manner. Take a rag and put some oil on it, wipe out the cylinders which will also give them a final cleaning and put you pistons and rings in with No oil on them. The rings break in much, much quicker, and will not score the cylinder. I also think you get better compression. Maybe we'll see. Depends on how much nerve you have to try something different.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 10:08pm |
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It's me again. Did you post that your power steering is leaking? Start filling it up with brake fluid. Makes o-rings swell and such and will sometimes stop leaks like these, maybe not forever but for a time. Leon R CMo
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twowheels
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Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 12:00pm |
LeonR2013 wrote:
It's me again. Did you post that your power steering is leaking? Start filling it up with brake fluid. Makes o-rings swell and such and will sometimes stop leaks like these, maybe not forever but for a time. Leon R CMo |
Actually that was the only thing that wasn't leaking on the whole tractor  I couldn't find anything in the manual about the power steering, it sounds like Dexron would be the right thing to use??? you don't know how many quarts it takes do you? It looks like the reservoir is about a gallon maybe a bit less. I got to pick up my head today they only charged me $40 to grind and lap the valves, since I forgot to give them the valve retainers I will have to assemble it tonight and hopefully get the rest put back together tomorrow as I need the room on my bench and garage for a paying job on Sunday. Again I want to thank everyone for all the help and information!
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Don(MO)
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Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 1:56pm |
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Factory power steering used 20# engine oil back in the old days, I use 20 hyd oil in my WD45 tractors, after looking at the oil that came out of your tractor's power steering I'd fill it run it for a hour or so and drain and refill it one or maybe two times.
The tank will hold 1 gal of oil, but a total drain and oil change will take 5.5 qt's to fill up.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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twowheels
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Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 2:09pm |
Don(MO) wrote:
Factory power steering used 20# engine oil back in the old days, I use 20 hyd oil in my WD45 tractors, after looking at the oil that came out of your tractor's power steering I'd fill it run it for a hour or so and drain and refill it one or maybe two times.
The tank will hold 1 gal of oil, but a total drain and oil change will take 5.5 qt's to fill up.
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Great Thank You yeah, I can't believe what came out of there.
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twowheels
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 11:23am |
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Well I got here back together and running last night. Still a bit smokey but much better. I let here run for abut 25 min. or so an did the valve adjustment (it was sounding pretty clattery). I am going to re torque the head tonight, will I need to readjust the valves after I remove and then reassemble the rocker arm assembly? this would be somewhat of a pain to have to get it put back together and up to operating temp then pull it back apart again to check the valves. Also I thought I would get away with not using RTV on the valve cover gasket but it leaked like a sieve, I have a rubber and a cork gasket for it which one is better?
with any luck I will be out bashing down Autumn Olive bushes tonight! I swear if left unchecked for a year they will take over everything.
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 11:50am |
I thought I was the only one that had problems with Autumn Olive bushes. I'm going to try cutting them then putting Round Up on the fresh cuts stubs.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 3:55pm |
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Why are you going to remove the rocker assembly? Set the valves cold about .002 more than the book calls for and run it for a while. Valve lash is probably one of the least looked at things, but is important for a good running longer lasting engine IMO.
My other opinion is to use the cork gasket. Don't over torque the cover bolts and make sure the cover is flat before assembly. A 12 inch scale from a good square is a good straight edge to check the cover out.
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