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Steering upgrade for 505 wagon
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bobp View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Location: Huntsville AR
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    Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 12:32pm
I'm looking for suggestions or help with ideas on upgrading the steering on an old Allis 505 wagon undercarriage. In this instance it has an old silage box on it. I am using it to haul bulk material for my compost operation. Some of mu bulk material is dry, some really wet....I can't afford to have a sloshing accident here... I use the compost on my small fruit farm.

The wagon does a great job but the fishtail jig and wobble over 20MPH empty and 10MPH loaded which is a real drag...Two of my bulk sources are 12 miles away, and this takes a lot of time to move...

Has anyone done something like add shocks to the steering plate to absorb the wiggle? any help would be awesome!
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critter View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Nov 2013
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Points: 254 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 3:45pm
The tie rods look like they are adjustable, measure the front tires to check toe in. front of tires should measure 1/8 to 1/4 inch narrower than the back side of the tires. Or it could be the tie rod end are worn out and need replaced.
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Ky.Allis View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Points: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 4:02pm
Back in their day I bought a new 505 running gear and put a gravity box on it. Within just a very few years the steering was wore out because there is no way to lube the tie rod ends. I've since learned that ANY wagon gear without greasable tie rods is a waste of money. Unless you are dead set on the AC wagon gear I would get one made to last since you are towing it down the highway.   
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Move the tongue from side to side to the point where you feel resistance and watching until the wheels actually start to turn. The total movment(slop) at the end of the tongue needs to be less than 6" side to side for it to tow decent down the road, less is even better. The front wheels must be straight to slightly toed in as discribed. Towed out increases sway.
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Get rid of ALL slop in the steering and it will follow fine up to 40 mph with a bit of toe in to the front wheels. If the tongue wiggles at all back and forth without moving the tie rods. tighten it up. Make it tight enough so it doesn't drop to the ground when you un-hitch and pull away.
 If you have to, pull the pin out of the tongue and add fender washers on either side to fill the gap. Make it TIGHT.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 24 Jan 2016 at 5:15pm
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Charlie is correct. Get all the lost motion out. HTH Tracy
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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bobp View Drop Down
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Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 2:00pm
Ok great advice, I'll get the tongue slop handled. I'll replace the horizontal pin with a grade 8 bolt, and add washers.
I'll get it 'toed in' 1/2" also...
If any of the tie rods are worn out I'll replace them...If I can find them?
A couple of ideas I had were to replace the hitch pin with a 2" ball, and to add an after market steering dampener? Would it need 2?
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Originally posted by bobp bobp wrote:

Ok great advice, I'll get the tongue slop handled. I'll replace the horizontal pin with a grade 8 bolt, and add washers.
I'll get it 'toed in' 1/2" also...
If any of the tie rods are worn out I'll replace them...If I can find them?
A couple of ideas I had were to replace the hitch pin with a 2" ball, and to add an after market steering dampener? Would it need 2?

 A ball hitch won't gain you much if anything.  A 1/4 inch slop at the pin won't make near as much difference as a 1/8 in slop in the tongue or tie rods.
 Make sure your wheel bearings aren't loose too. With a wheel jacked up, you shouldn't be able to feel any up and down movement in the hub and bearings.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Points: 29486 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHAMELESS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 7:23pm
one of my gravity flow wagons is still tight enough at the tounge and will tow empty at 40MPH. the sway and wiggle comes from backing up or forward and bottoming out on the turns...meaning going to the turn stops each side. take the bolt out of the tounge and replace it, it will prolly have wear on each end and or might be bent some. and as said above, tighten it up. that where most of the wagons fail is at the tongue bolt. also check for wear on the tongue holes where that bolt goes thru, they may be egged out I had a new tongue made once because of that and that solved the problem. it now tows at 35 MPH just fine empty. never pull anytype farm equipment over 10-15 MPH loaded. also match the pin in your hitch with the hole in the tongue, that will also cause wobble and slap. slap is good for leveling out and settling a load of grain, but sure is hard on a tranny and u-joints!
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Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2016 at 9:41am
The tongue pin holes are elongated from years of slopping around... I think I'll weld a bull dog on it for safety's sake but also I need to replace the tongue hitch anyway.

I replaced all 8 bearings, races, and 2 dust caps (Napa Auto had a book) as my first course of action....

I'll get the tongue bolt replaced asap and let you know what else I found..

The previous owner had jacked up the front of the box 4" and shortend the wagon up as short as it would go then re bolted the box to it... Not sure exactly why but I suspect they were after a tighter turning radius..
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Points: 1183 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KenBWisc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2016 at 8:45am
Have you checked and tightened the reach? 
'34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting!
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Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 7:26pm
OK took the reach /tongue off removed the pivot plate hitch. Re pinned and tightened every thing up. Added plate to both sides of the pivit hitch. Tonghue hangs in the air its so tight.
Welded the ball hitch on. Toe in 1/4" everything's greased and tight.
Hauled a load of black old side of the pile sawdust. (Wet) 3 scoops with a big loader. He said it was a 4 yd scoop? Looked like a 3 to me. Heavy load at any rate.

Pulled great. Made 40 with no fishtail. The reach extend tongue beat me to death the holes are sloppy and the spring pin is loose. It slips in and out constant. Gotta fix that. Thought about welding it , but second guess if I'll ever 'need' the long tongue?
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Points: 2578 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EricPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 8:51pm
Probably if you put a bolt in the hole in front of the spring latch to bolt the two pieces together that would help
Life is tough,but it's tougher when you're stupid. - John Wayne
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Points: 1550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobkyllo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 10:48pm
I build many wagons and if it does not trail 40 i junk it out. Like everyone said get rid of any slop. I make my own tie rod bolts with grease zerks
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Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 12:06pm
I can get 50-55 out of it now...after rebuilding the reach, and making it so it doesn't extend any more.... but it's still not right... now it jerks the drop hitch up and down constantly on my truck... it'll beat you to death almost... on the gravel road its a bear... maybe I have the reach too tight?

I hauled in 4 loads of sawdust and used it to apply the sawdust as mulch on some berrys. it did very well..
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