This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Smokey

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Smokey
    Posted: 27 Jun 2015 at 5:51pm
Bought a B that "runs great" according to PO.  It had the flywheel off and they'd put the tractor back together and never got around to fixin it.  I come alone and buy it.  Put a new ring gear on, resurfaced the flywheel, new clutch.  Start her up.  Great oil pressure.  Smokes like a fiend!  Tried a bottle of ZMax.  Smokes worse!  I see oil seeping out of the exhaust manifold in one spot.  The engine runs like a sewing machine. 

Question: Is it worth it to rework the head and hope this is where the oil is coming from?  My guess is the valve guides are toast.  If I don't have to do the bottom end I'd like that. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Wdtractorman View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Location: Kentucky
Points: 975
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wdtractorman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2015 at 9:12pm
I really dought it getting enough oil though the valve guides to make it smoke really bad. unless the oil return is stoped up wich I believe are the holes the push rods are though so I don't think that very likely. But I'm wrong about as much as right so other opinions would be good lol.
Back to Top
CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22825
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2015 at 9:48pm
Get a couple cans of Seafoam and run some thru the tank and some in the oil. WOrk it hard for a full tank of gas and see what happens. Might blow a lot of crap out the muffler!

Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 27 Jun 2015 at 9:48pm
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
Back to Top
allis in the ozarks View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Location: SE MO
Points: 1314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allis in the ozarks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 12:52am
Id say yall need new piston rings an possibly all new pistons an liners
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 6:15am
Thanks guys.  I've been working it hard.  Funny, the smoke is worse at idle.  It nearly disappears when you're at high idle or working it.  Ideas about that?
Back to Top
nella(Pa) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Allentown, Pa.
Points: 3124
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nella(Pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 7:14am
Is it gas smoke or oil smoke. If it is oil smoke read your spark plugs to tell which cylinder. If it is gas smoke check the needle valve settings, carberator float valve, float level.
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 7:26am
Definitely oil smoke!
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11994
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 10:11am
Pulling each Spark Plug can give you an pretty good indication on what's taking place inside the engine. If 3 out of the four plugs are just sooty or clean and one is oily, which ever cylinder that oily plug came out of is your problem child. Could be a valve guide, or could be a ring issue in that hole. If there's oil seeping out around the manifold area, the problem hole is probably that one. The problem with taking a chance on doing the top end is, you don't know how good the bottom end is to hold compression. That's a 50/50 chance there. If its pretty dirty or murky in the top of the engine, and the oil is pretty dirty, chances are that engine wasn't taken care of well and could be pretty worn both top and bottom. You mentioned the smoke disappears when you work it, and smokes when idling. That to me sounds like the guides are worn like your thinking. Tough call on that one....
Steve@B&B  
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 12:13pm
Thanks Steve.  I pulled the plugs and they are all oily.  I'm thinking a rebuild is due.  Too bad.  The oil is currently diluted with the zmax stuff, so I plan to run her daily for 10 minutes or so for about a week.  Then I will change the oil to 40 wt. and try her out.  The oil in her is really thin.  I also plan to do a compression test this afternoon dry and wet to see what happens.
Back to Top
Orange4ever View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Farmington, MO
Points: 390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 1:13pm
My dad says check your valve clearance, you can also get a air hold and take the intake and put new valve guide seals in it. First you set the valves and run it hard. You can also take the air cleaner off and make sure there's no mud dobbers in it. After doing all this and you still have smoke take the air cleaner off it, get you some Bon amme and run that through your hands and let it get sucked into the engine. Sometimes when engines idle a lot they get a glaze on the cylinder walls and rings will not seat, causing blowby and oil consumption. The Bon amme is a soap product, will score the cylinder walls, and cause the rings to seat again. This only works on engines with out turbo. It has worked for us, mainly on caterpillar dieasles.
If you want a man to be a successful farmer, give him a Allis Chalmers tractor. If you want him to be a successful mechanic, give him a John Deere
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 4:08pm
Thanks orange4ever.  I set the valves again.  All were pretty close.  I also ran a compression test.  Here are the dry and (wet) numbers:
Number 1: 120 (120);
Number 2: 120 (128);
Number 3: 115 (125);
Number 4: 115 (125);

I don't know what normal is supposed to be, but the increases with oil strongly suggest bad rings.  Dang it!  I really didn't want to have to rebuild this engine.
Back to Top
Orange4ever View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Farmington, MO
Points: 390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 7:54pm
Bon ami( mis-spelled it in the first post) will fix that and you won't need to go through the engine. Put it in the intake when the motor is running at half throttle, right at the carbuator, not the air cleaner. It is a soap product, will cause the rings to seat, and stop the oil consumption if the cylinder is glazed, and it will not harm the motor. I've done this to caterpillar D7- 3ts and it has cured them. It will save u a tear down. But there is a big difference between a B and a D7-3t on rebuild price.
If you want a man to be a successful farmer, give him a Allis Chalmers tractor. If you want him to be a successful mechanic, give him a John Deere
Back to Top
Dick L View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by Hubnut Hubnut wrote:

Thanks Steve.  I pulled the plugs and they are all oily.  I'm thinking a rebuild is due.  Too bad.  The oil is currently diluted with the zmax stuff, so I plan to run her daily for 10 minutes or so for about a week.  Then I will change the oil to 40 wt. and try her out.  The oil in her is really thin.  I also plan to do a compression test this afternoon dry and wet to see what happens.



Ten hours a day would be better if your using ten anything. (:^D

Ten minutes will not solve anything. It takes time to dissolve carbon gum crud.   
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 8:34pm
Thanks Dick.  I was hoping you'd chime in.  I'll keep at it.  
Back to Top
Dick L View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 9:00pm
With that kind of compression you would have plenty of power. My guess is still stuck oil rings and the Z max will work its way into the stuff making the rings stick and dissolve it in time. It will work best when the engine is kept warm for an extended time. Normally bad valve guides that cause smoke well past warm up time will not let you have high compression readings. The valve wallows out the seat when the guide is that sloppy and causes burning of the valve. A lot of good running B's and C's with compression readings in the 80's that don't smoke.
Back to Top
Hubnut View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Points: 1817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 5:28am
Thanks Dick.  That sounds like good news.  I'll be patient and let the zmax do it's job.  I'll keep you updated. 
Back to Top
Bill Long View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bel Air, MD
Points: 4556
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 6:18am
Hubnut,  Thanks for taking such good care of my favorite.  Hope it works out without a lot of extra work.  To me it has been a long time, but the compression test seems to be OK. 
I have to admit I have never heard of some of the remedies listed above.  However, they come from excellent mechanics so listen closely.
Let us know how it goes.
Thanks again for taking such good care of my favorite.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
Back to Top
wekracer View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Tebbetts, MO
Points: 1590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wekracer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 8:22am
Dad has talked about Bon Ami but I have never tried it. He says it works. But your compression is good and oil pressure is good. It's not uncommon for engines to smoke after they have been sitting for a while I would keep running it. Run sea foam in the gas and oil treatment and I bet it will clear up. Best thing to do is put it on a brush hog or something that will get it warm and work it.
Back to Top
Dick L View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 8:27am
The quickest way would be to pull the pistons out and clean up the oil rings but I have never been successful in removing all the stuck rings without breaking at least one. When I get a couple of the rings off I seem to think if I pry just a little more the ring will come and pop I have two or more pieces. Two kinds of oil rings in all that I have taken out on these engines. The ones that do not have the steel scraper rings seems to break easy when stuck. With that high of compression I would also guess that it has not run all that many hours since it had new parts. Oil in the cylinders will bring up the compression some in a new engine.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.068 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum