HD11E Wet Clutch Adjustment

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   My 11E wants to creep, occasionally,  even with the clutch lever held all the way forward. The clutch does not slip under load. There is considerable wear in all of the linkage joints, but I think it's passable. The hyraulic fluid is full, but it's age is unknown. 

My manual does not cover the engine clutch brake. I found it in the parts manual on page 246. 
I did see a clutch adjustment mentioned inside the clutch inspection cover  in the service manual. 

If I am seeing driveline spin with the clutch fully forward, and occasionally it's tough to get out of gear or into gears, do I focus on the brake band or on the adjustment in the bellhousing or both?

Thanks

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Gargoyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: Missouri Points: 186	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gargoyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: HD11E Wet Clutch Adjustment Posted: 14 Mar 2014 at 5:11pm
	My 11E wants to creep, occasionally, even with the clutch lever held all the way forward. The clutch does not slip under load. There is considerable wear in all of the linkage joints, but I think it's passable. The hyraulic fluid is full, but it's age is unknown. My manual does not cover the engine clutch brake. I found it in the parts manual on page 246. I did see a clutch adjustment mentioned inside the clutch inspection cover in the service manual. If I am seeing driveline spin with the clutch fully forward, and occasionally it's tough to get out of gear or into gears, do I focus on the brake band or on the adjustment in the bellhousing or both? Thanks

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Dozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: SW New York Points: 689	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2014 at 6:48pm
	I don't know if it is like my HD6 But here is what I would do Place the machine against something immovable. Put it in gear with the clutch disengaged. If the engine does not slow down or die then the clutch is not dragging. Then you have to adjust the clutch brake. You may have to remove some of the wear in the linkage. good luck

Mactractor Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mactractor Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2014 at 7:01pm
	HD6 has a shift locking function activated by engaging engine clutch to stop you accidently bumping tractor out of gear when clutch is engaged. When you disengage clutch, it frees the shift lock. Cant remember if HD11 also has that. When all is working properly, driveshaft will continue to spin when you disengage clutch until you hit the clutch brake (hard forward on clutch lever). If the tractor is creeping or trying to with clutch disengaged, you are likely to find plates warped from excessive heat.

ac_sd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 23 Apr 2011 Points: 194	Post Options Post Reply Quote ac_sd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2014 at 8:08pm
	I have an HD-11 with a oil clutch which does the same thing. A Dealer Friend said there is a "snap-ring" that likely had broken allowing that. I haven't dug into it yet to confirm that> The hydraulic clutches don't tend to wear as much as the old dry type, so it could be an internal issue like He mentioned.

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2014 at 8:36pm
	I've had two HD11Es that did the same thing, I think it's just the nature of the beast- not enough oil clearance when the clutch is disengaged. Very noticeable with cold oil, gets better as oil heats up. I also know another guy who has one- his does the same thing as well. Learn to shift gears fast!

Gargoyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: Missouri Points: 186	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gargoyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 10:31am
	Lol.. I looked at it more last night. I think I have a little room to adjust the brake band itself and the linkage just prior to the band has a bit of play. That might do the trick..

Mactractor Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mactractor Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Mar 2014 at 4:30pm
	Trev, I was told the oil clutch on 11`s are the same as HD6 with more plates added. If thats true and the 11 has only the same amount of throwout distance, your thoughts of not enough clearance between plates could sure be the cause of creeping. What viscosity oil were you running in the clutches?

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Mar 2014 at 9:02pm
	Was running John Deere Hygard oil- can't remember if it was regular (approximately 10W30) or "low viscosity" (5W20). I know we always ran the lo visc in the steering. I think the manual called for 10W. The thinner oil would be better for sure. We put a brand new clutch brake on the older machine, and it would hold for a couple of seconds, then the clutch would start turning again, wore out the brake in no time. Always was a pain because we mostly used 2nd Forward, 2nd reverse, which don't line up on the shift pattern. The series B had a redesigned clutch with internal clutch brake. I've talked to guys who ran them, and they said they never had problems with creeping. My uncle has a Cat D6B, which has a tiny little clutch brake, about a quarter the size of the one on the 11, and the clutch works great on it- no creep whatsoever. Plus the shuttle shift was a great idea- why didn't AC think of that?

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33264	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 4:54pm
	Quite a lot of the time on heavy trucks the clutch plate spline to the input of the trans would wear, the clutch brake could handle the disc until facing wear caught up and the disc would stick in the bad spot or a new disc installed while the pressure plate had been adjusted to release inside of that area, would drag enough to shear the brake aligning ears. Also had issues with the pilot bearing going bad, it hanging up on the input shaft and dragging it along where the brake again could not hold. Edited by DMiller - 17 Mar 2014 at 4:56pm

HD6 Merv Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Access Joined: 03 Aug 2010 Location: New Zealand Points: 494	Post Options Post Reply Quote HD6 Merv Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Mar 2014 at 2:07pm
	Hi Trev; curious as to your thoughts as to how your HD11E compared to your uncles D6B ?? Always interesting to hear peoples differing opinions of the different species !!
	tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Mar 2014 at 5:03pm
	D6B is no powerhouse, but a solid, solid tractor, and the shuttle was very nice. Liked the Allis steering clutch levers on the dash better. The HD11E we had was very similar- was probably better in mud with the 7 roller track frame. We also had an old HD11S that we put an HD11EC engine into- that machine had a lot of power- way better than the E, they were supposed to have 10 more horsepower, but it seemed like more. (both engines had fresh rebuild) Back to the question, both machines are similar, I'd use either one. Probably get more work done with the Allis, but you can always sell a Caterpillar... you have to find the right guy for an Allis Chalmers.