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imkcdc 
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 Topic: d17 not oiling
Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 4:47pm |
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My D17 sat for a long time and seems not to be oiling properly, what is proper way to check if oil pump is working properly.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 5:34pm |
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First, what have you observed that suggests improper oiling?
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 10:13pm |
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There are several things one should be aware, when working on the Allis engine... first, is that the oil pressure gauge is NOT an accurate indicator of oiling. The oiling system is a 'partial bypass' system, where some oil pressure is diverted through the oil filter, and drains back to the pan. If the oil pressure gauge is indicating low, it could be simply that too much oil is bypassing through the filter.
Is there oil flow to the rocker arms?
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Gary
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Posted: 04 Aug 2012 at 3:29am |
Didn't the D-17 change from 'By-pass' oil filter to 'Full flow' oil filter around 1959 Serial 17-19978 ? Gary
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 04 Aug 2012 at 9:43am |
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Hi Gary!
I know they did change it sometime during the production, someone else knows better than I. My Series 1 is bypass, just like my WDs and WCs.
Original poster left absolutely no details, and no clue as to what series he had, so there's really no good way of answering his/her question.
Anybody got a crystal ball? Any psychics on the board? My magic carpet has a bad magneto, so it's stuck sitting on the shop floor right now...
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 04 Aug 2012 at 11:23am |
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My Black bar series I has the full flow system.
imkcdc, What filter do you have on the tractor? If it's a full flow system, it will have a pleated paper filter like Fram PH8A. If it's the by-pass system, it will have something like the Fram C159, which is stuffed with cotton or yarn.
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Creek Jenkins
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Posted: 04 Aug 2012 at 2:40pm |
If the oil pressure is low on a bypass system, how can you tell if too much oil is going to the filter? My early S1 D17 has low pressure when warmed up, but engine sounds great and I when I take the valve cover off I seem to have pretty good flow to the rockers. I run straight 30W all year around.
If too much oil is going to the filter, would that mean an obstruction somewhere?
cheers,
Creek
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 04 Aug 2012 at 2:49pm |
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I don't believe you can have too much oil going to the filter. The filter is basically at the end of the line and the restriction in the filter causes pressure to build up in the system.
If you were to plug the hole that the filter riser tube is in, you will see on your gauge what the bypass is set at unless the pump can't get to that pressure because of wear , restriction to the intake or totally worn out bearings.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 04 Aug 2012 at 2:50pm
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imkcdc
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 3:44pm |
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Dave, drained the oil today ,stuck my finger in drain hole(don't laugh) and felt what I think is the oil screen. Since I think the oil screen has become dislodged how much more oil would a fella have to put in to make to the oil pnmp screen inlet to prove the pump works?
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imkcdc
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 3:51pm |
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Should of read all posts before I replied. D17 series IV 1966, the best I have read it a partial bypass and can be adjusted at pump. Don't really want to split front off tractor does anyone think the oil pickup screen be replaced by just dropping starter and power steering pump?
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 4:02pm |
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It's not just the starter in your way, you also have to remove the power steering RAM, it's the cylinder that actually turns the front wheels. It' is far easier to remove the whole front than to remove just the RAM I think anyway. Others might disagree, it's probably 50/50
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 4:28pm |
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Put the drain plug back into the oil pan!! Add 6 quarts of motor oil. Disconnect the very small diameter oil pressure gauge line and brass adapter fitting from the rear of the oil filter base and then install a 50 psi gauge with 1/8" pipe threads. Remove the oil filter and slowly pour 1 quart of motor oil into the center of the filter base nipple and the outer portion of the base. Reinstall the filter and start the engine. Read the oil pressure on your gauge. It should be 30 to 35 psi. The oil pump pickup screen is a "floating" design and will move with your finger......even if it was disconnected, you would still have oil pressure.
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imkcdc
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 5:53pm |
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what i'm feeling moves all around not just up and down, I will try your test Wed. have to do other farm chores tomorrow
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 7:26pm |
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If you don't have oil pressure after about 3 or 4 seconds following this procedure, SHUT IT OFF.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 12:00am |
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My full flow 226 takes about 2 sec before oil pressure comes up at start up. I'm blameing the upside down filter for drain back.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 12:06am |
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A good full flow filter will have a good anti-drainback valve to keep oil in the engine. Fram isn't one of those anymore. Back in the 1980s it was a good filter. Now its junk.
Gerald J.
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imkcdc
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Posted: 14 Sep 2012 at 1:44pm |
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Found cam oil pump gearing stripped. Have replacement stuff but am confused. IT repair manual says 9 tooth oil pump and 14 tooth cam, but Agco parts book says 11 teeth or 14 teeth on the cam. A parts person said the 14 tooth cam was put in late 1967 getting ready for th AC 170 but before that was 11 teeth. Just for info the very early d17s had the old oil pump with 10 teeth and 11 tooth cam. Can't find anything else on the 9 tooth oil pump to 11 tooth cam.
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DanD
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Posted: 14 Sep 2012 at 2:22pm |
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Your parts person is not quite correct. The early D17's with the bypass system had the the 11 tooth cam and 10 tooth pump. When the 17's changed over to the full flow system, they went to the 14 tooth/9 tooth combination. Your Series IV should be the 14 and 9 combination. Having said that, if an older engine got a new camshaft, it would then have the 14 tooth cam and you'd have to put the 9 tooth gear on the oil pump. So, as are many things with these old tractors, you may not know exactly what is there until you take it apart, but when new, what I've described is how the oil pump drive gears were.
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