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C oil pressure problems
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Points: 3853 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: C oil pressure problems
    Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 7:14pm
Previously, I lost oil pressure on this tractor. Switched gauges, still no pressure. Took the oil filter off, and nothing came out of the oil feed line while running (Did not run it for long.)
 
Well, just cracked open the tractor tonight. Oil pumped checked out good. Spring and detent ball were functional, as well as the propellers inside, everything seemed to be working well.
 
Took the air hose, and blew air back through the oil spout that feeds the oil filter. A little sludge and oil came out of the line, but not enough to make me think it was blocked there. Then, took the pan off, and blew air back through the oil pick up, in the pan. clean as a whistle.
 
Finally, took the entire oil filter housing assembly off the block, and put air through there too. Clean.
 
I don't understand this one, at all!! Any ideas?
 
 
Could anything be broke, from where the oil feeds the cam, through the block up to the oil filter housing (picture above)?
 
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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MNLonnie View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MNLonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 7:21pm
I was told that the pump wears out and gets side to side play in it and this causes it to lose prime. Did you squirt oil down the tube for the oil filter to see if you get pressure when you start it then?
Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
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Points: 3853 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 7:22pm
Yup, I think you mentioned that before when I was asking a couple questions.
 
We put lots of oil down the tube, and nothing came back up.
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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norm[ind] View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010
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Points: 2992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norm[ind] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 7:25pm
  we had one that done the same scenario    the releif ball in the pump was the culprit
   replaced with different ball woked fine  ball was out of round did not seat properly
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Points: 5087 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 5:27am
The oil just dumps behind the filter onto the lifters and runs out the front of the engine into the pan. That has nothing to do with pressure.
 
If the clearance between the rotor and pump cover is not gone over specs and the pin in the camshaft that turns the oil pump is still good you should look close to the ball as well as the ball seat for the problem as Norm suggested. I have found pitted balles and pitted seats. If the oil pump gaskets are installed in the wrong place you can have a prime loss also. The thin gasket goes under the cover.  That thin gasket is your clearance. Without the gasket the cover should just touch the rotor.  If the vanes are installed backwards you can have problems.
 
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Points: 3853 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 6:18am
I do have a spare pump off a B, that I just picked up. Thinkin that pump will go on the tractor tonight.
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Points: 3835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 7:25am

More more thing that can affect oil pressure in those engines is the thrust plunger and spring in the front end of the cam.  Cant say I have ever heard of one going bad but have heard of them being left out at rebuild and result is zero reistance to oil flow through the cam and thus zero oil pressure.  As Dick eluded you need to pay attention to the end play in the pump.  In a perfect world the gears are the same length as the housing and the thin gasket makes your clearance. The last 2-3 oil pumps I have had apart have been put together without a cover gasket and I used a very thin coating of silicone in it's place due to wear in the gears. Everything could be ground back to even but it would be very teadious work and set up. The wear in the cover is easy taken care of with a surface grinder or CAREFULL sanding.   DickL put out some excellent info on how to get the pumps back in shape in the home shop a few years ago but I dont have it saved, maybe he will post it again??



Edited by Butch(OH) - 10 Jan 2012 at 7:26am
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Thanks for the help.

What should the flywheel bolts be torqued to? (Did not see it in the IT manual).
 
Also, do the clutch cover(pressure plate) bolts need to be torqued?
 
The 3 bolts that hold the oil pump on the block? I see they had a wire through them.
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Dakota Dave View Drop Down
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Points: 3966 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 3:09pm
When I had the same problem with My CA the Drive pin in the end of the cam was broken. The pieces looked like they had lots of wear before it broke. but a new roll pin in and put the tractor back together its worked ever since.
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TomMN View Drop Down
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Points: 858 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 4:48pm
Here is a picture of the end of the camshaft with a new pump drive pin installed:
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Jerry (Ohio) View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 58 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry (Ohio) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 7:23pm
I had problems with my B having no oil pressure a few years ago. Put in a can of STP and no problems since
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Thanks again.
 
Guess what? Got her goin again tonight!
 
Swapped pumps, being that we could see nothing else wrong. Put pan back on, new gasket, replaced clutch bearing, and a new oil filter. Put her together and had it running by 8 PM tonight.
 
Getting pressure between the 'N' and the 'R' on the oil gauge, at half throttle.
 
 
Is that average?
 
 
 
We used the wood stove, to heat up the new ring gear we put on! Worked great, only took about 15 minutes to heat up!
 
Thanks again!
 
 
 
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Also noticed, in the old oil pump, that ball was worn in behind the spring, had a flat groove kind of worn in it. Will have to take a picture of that tomorrow.
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Rick of HopeIN View Drop Down
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Points: 1324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 9:15pm
My oil gauge started hanging up and not going down to zero.  Sounds like I need to get a new gauge and remember to check it regularly when I start the little B.    
1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless
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Don(MI) View Drop Down
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Pulled the old oil pump apart, Here is the ball and spring
 
Hard to tell in pics, but there is one side that is flat, in a ring type shape around the sphere of the ball. I bet that is what caused it to not seat properly.
 
 
 
Thanks again for your help guys, she is on her way to almost being complete again. I gotta say though, I really enjoy wrenchin on this old orange iron!!
 
 
 
Galatians 5:22-24

"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
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Points: 2992 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norm[ind] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2012 at 8:00pm
  WE HAVE A NEW PUMP  [NOS]   1-800-254-3116
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