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Add intercooler to 3500?

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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:21am
We installed one of the military 3500 engines in our 220 last year and had the pump delivery bumped up a tad while at the shop to have the tractor pump governor installed. . Dyno sheet that came with the engine read 147HP at 1800 RPM, we are now at 220 tractor RPM spec with delivery at the generator spec plus 10%.  No idea what it is putting out HP wise but it's up there. The brother-in law didn't like me spanking his warmed up 1066 in the field so the HP race is on now, LOL.  We installed an Isspro pyrometer on it and using 1300 degrees as a max we have to back it down at times for exhaust temps, like hills and tough spots. We were pulling 12 twisted shanks in 5th.  Since originality is out of the picture anyway what will an intercooler do for me and how big a deal is it to install one on the 3500 engine?   Only tough thing it does is a few hours of recreational tillage each year the rest of the time it's just arm candy. Thanks in advance

Edited by Butch(OH) - 09 Dec 2011 at 6:28am
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:36am
To install one correctly (so it actually works) you need the complete water pump assembly from a 7060 or bigger with all the OEM connections. Then, on a hot day you'll probably have a coolant overheating issue from the radiator capacity being too small.  Now, there'll be someone come on here and claim they've already done it to a D21-210-220 with no problems !! the reality is, if they've tried using the D21-210-220 water pump and their own homemade connections, the intercooler probably doesn't have any water flowing thru it (just stagnent) so therefore, they don't have an overheating condition on a hot day. In that case the intercooler was just an ornament.
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Roddo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roddo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:39am
Why can't you just add an air to air intercooler from something else?  Put it in front of the rad or something.
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Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:41am
This is very timely because I'm planning on doing the same thing on my 220. I'm installing a 3500 MK II engine with a factory inline pump. The engine has 87 hrs since new and was on an municipal emergency water punp. The manual is for an 'On highway engine'. I have an intercooler from a newer engine that is going be added. Also installing Mexican Hat duals, 1500 lb inside tyler weights and hope to be able to pull my 2500 7 furrow on land hitch semi mount Mono frame plow and a 7 shank Blue Jet tillage pro.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 6:51am
Adding an air-to-air also puts hotter air to the radiator probably causing overheating on an 80 degree plus day. To properly install the OEM intercooler stuff, the radiator would need the lower outlet moved to the left side. Why not make a fuel tank under the RH platform and install a homemade water injection (windshield washer fluid) kit, triggered by a turbo boost pressure switch......12 ounces in 30 seconds yields right at 60 PTO HP more and exhaust temps drop drastically. It would only turn on when the pulling was tough and would be off any other time. You could hide everything and just claim the extra tank was for diesel fuel.
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 8:15am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

. Why not make a fuel tank under the RH platform and install a homemade water injection (windshield washer fluid) kit, triggered by a turbo boost pressure switch......12 ounces in 30 seconds yields right at 60 PTO HP more and exhaust temps drop drastically. It would only turn on when the pulling was tough and would be off any other time. You could hide everything and just claim the extra tank was for diesel fuel.
OK Dr, you have made a believer out of me. Since I know nothing about this system could you lay it out in detail here or send it PM or Email? I understand exactly what you are saying as for operation but need info like where I find a pump, etc.
I think the diesel pick up truck hotrodders use something similar? 12 oz in 30 seconds would be like two cans of beer per minute so a couple gallon tak would last a long time used in spurts? We have both RH and LH battery boxes but can find a place for a tank.
And you are correct in that about the time the Pyro was telling us to back down so was the temp gauge in 85 degree weather.
Thanks.


Edited by Butch(OH) - 09 Dec 2011 at 8:22am
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 8:58am
I've used two systems over the years tractor pulling. The early system was simply a windhsield washer tank from a car or pickup with the pump built into it. We used to hide it inside the air cleaner can. I think there is probably washer pumps now that would just fit in-between two hoses, which would be great for your homemade tank. Use a paper in-line gas filter between the pump and orifice to keep orifice clean.There is usually a pipe plug in the "J" tube going to the turbo inlet that you can mount your homemade orifice. The orifice is just something similar to a carb jet that you keep drilling out the hole until you get the ounces per minute you want....you might try 12 oz in 60 seconds to start with. Regular cheap windshield washer pre-mixed works great.
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one54dodgetruck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one54dodgetruck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 9:58am
Dr Allis do you perfer pre or post turbo? My Allis hauler/toy has a dt466 IH and ive been fighting temps since ive turned the pump up. Any problems with pooling in the turbo?
andrew 
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 11:19am
Pre-turbo takes less fancy equipment. Never had an issue pooling, because it should only be used at full throttle under load anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andytutd21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 11:38am
Having learned a great deal from Dr.Allis, I hesitate to disagree with him. I installed an intercooler from a military Mark 2 3500 engine on one of our D-21's. It was a cast iron cased intercooler, first one I had ever seen. I used the water pump from the military engine, just replaced the steel line from the back as it was damaged. Had a heating problem, recored the radiator and learned to not use all of the available horsepower. Still use the tractor today. Installed several copies on other peoples D-21s, 210s and 220s. I assume the factory engineering worked on whatever military application it was used on so I just copied it. Had temperature gauge before and after the intercooler, at 16 pounds of boost got about an 70 to 100 degree temp drop, depending on how hot the coolant was.
   Dr. Allis is definitely right the radiator could not handle the extra heat when you used the engine hard. The intercooler sure looks good on a D-21.

Edited by andytutd21 - 09 Dec 2011 at 11:40am
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 11:54am
Used in the Fall when ambient temps are 60 degrees or less and the radiator is absolutely in perfect shape, you won't have any trouble. Question is, if you can't use all of the available HP all the time, why would one want it that way?? Engineers designed the cooling systems on MOST newer AC tractors to run 100 degrees over ambient temp at 100% load, so on a 90 degree day, the coolant temp will be 190 degrees....a 100 degree day and it will be pushing 200 degrees. That is with everything in perfect shape by the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andytutd21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 12:24pm
Chisel plowing on a slightly snowy day with the engine making good boost and the dirt flying, makes it worthwhile. Just because its fun I guess, and that intercooler looks GOOD. Most of the time treat it like it is a 140 horse tractor. Do the real heavy work with the 8070 fwa which has a stronger driveline and no overheating problems.

Edited by andytutd21 - 09 Dec 2011 at 12:25pm
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Unit3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unit3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 2:31pm
I had one added to my 670T in the 7045. It works fine, and I know it is different then a D21, 210, or 220. My question would be if there is any differences in the radiarors on 7045, 7060, and the 7080?
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 2:39pm
You bet...7045 has four rows of tubes....7060 has five rows of tubes (20% to 25% more capacity) and the 7080 has same core as 7060 but taller and fits between the side frames for more capacity. 7045's are known for too small of radiator in hot country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2011 at 9:43am
WHILE  during my travels with AC in S La - hello Thad - how is everyone in Abbyville - we had some, well a bunch of real heating issues with the 210 -220's as well as d21's and especially 190xt's.  One farmer south of Cane equipment around Sunshine told me to "come see, I gonna told you how we be fix'd dem tangs."  There was a 220 with a neat set of louvers in the hood top and underneath was a 2nd little radiator with an electric fan drawing air from top .  Taking this one step forward to this discussion - I 'done' this on my '77 7040- after adding the intercooler and experiencing heating problem with a 'tad' more fuel - and it works.   The intercooler sends water down one side and it makes a turn and comes back the other side (be carefull when working on the intercooler - if one puts it back together wrong it renders it useless  ) .  Drill and tap the end cap, put a divider in like the front end and run coolant to separate radiator then back to the other side of the rear cap.   Hard to tell exact but nearly a hundred degree drop in temp at full power from top  bottom of intercooler best I can remember.   
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