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StewartMD 
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Location: Emmitsburg, MD
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 Topic: CA with slight knock
Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 6:18am |
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My CA has developed a slight knock. It doesn't get used too hard at the farm except for pulling the wood trailer, plowing snow at my house, etc. I'm no master mechanic but am capable at doing most repairs myself. Can anyone suggest where to start? I thought drop the pan first to take a look. Then start from the top down. Any thoughts, advice, recommendations would be appreciated. I'd really like to get this fixed before something lets go and I have a much bigger problem. Thanks. Josh
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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Dick L
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 7:04am |
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Get a long screwdriver, put the handle up to your ear and start trying to locate where the knock is at buy touching the screwdriver blade against the outside of the block and valve cover. You would start looking where the knock is the loudest. Check the crankshaft pulley first to see if it is loose.
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StewartMD
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 7:13am |
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Dick, Thanks for the info. I will check the crankshaft pulley and listen with a screwdriver this weekend and report back.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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DougS
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:03am |
Does it do it all the time? Only under load? Only when cold or hot? Perhaps only as you let the clutch out? The worst it could be is a rod bearing or loose rod bolt. You don't want to sit on a problem like that for very long.
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StewartMD
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:18am |
I believe it does it most of the time. I can't hear it at higher RPMs, most when it's a 1/4 throttle or less. I will listen more closely this weekend. I don't think letting the clutch out or whether it is hot or cold makes much difference in the noise.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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Tom Miller (IA)
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Iowa
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 11:23am |
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My 48 C did the same thing about 12 years ago. I dropped the pan and found one hole with bad rod bearings. I made a road trip to the local engine shop and they had bearings that fit so i replaced all four and she is still running today with great oil pressure.
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Dave Richards (WV)
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 12:25pm |
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I had a knock that we could not find on a WC. Luckily, just before tear down, We moved it at night and found a spot of missing exhaust gasket. In the dark you could see the fire in the manifold. Covered the hold with a leather glove, (DON'T DO THAT!!!) and the noise went away. Replaced the exhaust gaskets (DO THAT) and noise stayed away. It is unlikely that is your problem, but it is the unlikely ones that drive you nuts. My hand still hurts thinking about it.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 12:35pm |
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My CA started to knock and I couldn't seem to locate it with the screw drive listening device. Someone said check the front pulley. The pulley was tight on the crank, but the crank slide back and forth a good .090 inch. Time for new bearings cause the thrust bearing is gone.
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Dick L
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Location: Edon Ohio
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:13pm |
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Remember in these engines the condition of the bearings has no affect on oil pressure. Oil pressure is built at the oil pump stem ball and seat and the oil filter only. Centrifugal force sends the oil to the bearings from the center of the spinning camshaft. There is no direct connection between the oil pump and any bearings that would or couild build or loose pressure on the gage.
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StewartMD
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:15pm |
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Thanks to all for all the tips. I will take a close look at the exhaust manifold. I will also check the other items mentioned. I definitely now know where to start. Once I take a closer look I'm sure to be back for more advice on this.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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StewartMD
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:17pm |
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Dick, thanks for the information on the oil pressure. I didn't realize that was how this engine worked. I do have good oil pressure with this tractor.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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Dick L
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:23pm |
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Dave just gave another good place to check. I had an Oliver 1650 that would knock if It pulled extra hard fitting ground. It had a small hole in the exhaust manifold just above the flange. As the hole got larger the more it make a knocking noise with less pull down. Didn't find it for the longest time. It did sound like metal on metal.
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Wil M (NEIA)
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:34pm |
My C has a knock in it but under load it goes away. I have dropped the oil pan and specked all of the bearings with plastic guage and everything on the bottom was tight. Suspect it may be in the camshaft but it is funny that it goes away under load.
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"Yet there are soulless men whose hand and brain tear down what time will never give again." Anderson M Scruggs
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Chalmersbob
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Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 9:58pm |
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I remember looking for a knock in a 36 chev truck. We took 1 sparkplug wire off at a time, and then replaced it, until we found the cylinder that had the knock. We then removed that sparkplug wire completely and broke off the plug in the head and ran on 5 cylinders for years after that. The knock is caused by the clyinder firing. Bob
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 19 Nov 2011 at 8:15am |
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An engine knock can be caused by a lot of things. Sometimes, carbon can give you an engine knock. Other causes can be a piston pin, or a little extra clearance in the piston to wall. I've seen quite a few pin hole exhaust leaks that you would swear sounded like an internal rod knock like Dave and Dick mentioned. Boy, those types of silly things like that can drive you on a goose chase tearin' into the engine! The ole' screwdriver trick does work quite well for location. Simple, but effective!
Steve@B&B
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StewartMD
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Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 7:15am |
Here's an update from this weekend. I didn't have a ton of time to check it out because we were busy with the cows and doing corn.
It only knocks at idle to half throttle. It knocks whether cold or warmed up. I checked the crank pulley and it was tight. I looked at the exhaust manifold, everything looks old but I didn't notice any carbon marks coming out of any particular area. I tried the screwdriver method and really couldn't find where the noise. I am planning on taking the spark plugs wire off tonight to see if I can narrow it down to one cylinder then listen some more with the screwdriver. I might just go ahead and replace the exhaust manifold gasket and inspect the manifold carefully to completely rule out that problem. Thanks again for all the help.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 8:25am |
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Did you check end play in the crankshaft while looking at the pulley? Just take a BIG screw driver and try to pry the pulley forward and back. If you can see movement of the pulley or crankshaft in either direction, the thrust bearing is going bad. The CE engine is know for that because the thrust bearing is only half way round the journal. A binding throw out bearing will wear the thrust bearing out in no time.
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StewartMD
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Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 9:01am |
CTucker, I didn't use a large screwdriver but I will try that tonight. Not knowing alot about the CA engines I appreciate the advice. Thanks.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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StewartMD
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Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 7:09am |
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I used a large screwdriver to pry on the front pulley to see if the thrust bearing went bad and couldn't get it to move. When I took the spark plug wires off the second cylinder from the front (i believe this is cylinder #2??) is the problem one. I am planning on dropping the pan to take a look from the underside. Hopefully I can work on it tonight if I have enough time.
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8030, 8010, 220, 185, 160, D-17, WD, Unstyled WC, CA, G, 20-35, Gleaner E
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