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WF owner 
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4914
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 Topic: D-15 - NO SPARK
Posted: 27 May 2025 at 9:20pm |
I just bought a D-15 Series 2 that had no spark.
I immediately noticed that the battery had been installed backwards (negative ground). When I turned it over, the ammeter showed + amps and the switch was hooked to the - side of the coil.
When I got it home, the first thing I did was to hook the battery up correctly (positive ground). No spark.
I cleaned the points and re-gapped them to .020. Still no spark.
I changed the condensor with a condensor from a nonrunning tractor. Still no spark.
I installed a new coil, points and (Echlin) condensor. Still no spark.
I have power from the switch to the negative side of the coil. I have power on the distributer side of the coil and also on the side terminal of the distributor. I also tried a jumper wire from the battery to the coil with no change. I have fire at the points. I have tried a different distributor cap and rotor. I have tried a different coil wire. I still have no spark.
The rotor turns and the points are opening and closing as the engine turns.
I have no idea what else to try. Any ideas?
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 86217
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Posted: 27 May 2025 at 10:29pm |
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that an odd one... Sounds like you have power to the primary side of the coil, thru the coil and thru the point as you can see the small "spark" at that point... What you dont have is the HIGH VOLTAGE spike on the secondary side of the coil... That should narrow it down to the coil, cap , rotor and the spark wires... I know you have tried all new, but something there is still off... Have you cranked the engine with the cap off and verify that the rotor is turning ? ..... I have also taken a plug and put in the spark wire out of the coil, then flick the point open / closed and see that the PLUG will fire without the rotor and cap..... start to narrow down the high voltage side.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5998
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Posted: Yesterday at 12:11am |
Pull off the distributor cap. Grab the rotor shaft and wiggle it. Does it move around?n If so, the distributor bushings and shaft are worn enough so that, when cranking, the point cam lobes no longer lift the points open. The circumstance of gears turning the shaft slowly, vs. under cranking, yields a different reaction on that distributor shaft. Wear there is a historically-common thing.
If it doesn't wiggle, connect a jumper wire from the battery directly to the coil (bypass the ignition switch) and then see if it'll start. If it does, your keyswitch has a bad START contact. Wear on that contact (and on the RUN contact) is also a historically common thing.
Don't trust battery cables any farther than you can throw them... particularly the ground cable.
Edited by DaveKamp - Yesterday at 12:14am
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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JC-WI
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 34258
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Posted: Yesterday at 1:42am |
My question starts at, Has this tractor gotten an alternator upgrade from generator. If it has, then it would be negative grounded. The points got spark, but not the plug wires, I would try and see if coil has spark to block of engine, if it doesn't, bad coil. mmm, do those coils need the casing grounded to coil hanger?
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: Yesterday at 5:26am |
A little more information.
The guy that I bought it from told me that his father bought the tractor new and it has been o their farm it's whole life. He said the hour meter has always worked and it shows 2740 hours. It is all original and still has the generator it came with.
He said they just haven't used the old tractor for a few years. It ran a couple years ago. They decided to get rid of it and put a new battery in it but couldn't get any spark.
I have verified that the distributor shaft is turning, and it is quite snug. There is a very little movement in the shaft (I would assume gear lash), but virtually no side-to-side movement. I have seen running tractors that were a lot looser. I have tried a jumper wire directly from the battery to the switch side of the coil.
Steve, I am leaning to your suggestion that it is wire, cap, rotor or coil. I will keep trying!
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: Yesterday at 7:22am |
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and if all else fails, never underestimate the possibility that you have multiple bad condensers...but verify the COIL will spark thru the plug to ground..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis
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Posted: Yesterday at 7:32am |
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If there truly is continuity thru the points to ground, you have a bad coil most likely. Check for spark coming out of the coil wire first to a good ground. If spark is there, the coil is good (sharp blue spark) and then you have a rotor/cap/wires issue.
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orangeman
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Posted: Yesterday at 7:43am |
X 2 what Dr. Allis advises. I would suspect both of the following are oxidized:
1. Primary contact where the wire exits the coil, 2. Primary contact where the wire enters the top of the distributor cap.
Have seen this many times and have spent a few hours with a small round chainsaw file cleaning those contacts with a follow up spray of electrical contact cleaner. Upstate NY produces a lot of ambient condensation atmospherically and electrical contact points whether in a magneto or a distributor based system , don't like moisture or oxidation!
Good Luck with the D15 S2
~ Orangeman
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TedN
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Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
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Posted: Yesterday at 9:13am |
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It seems that you have changed a lot of parts, and probably the previous owner tried changing parts too. I don't think the problem is with anything you have changed, I think you may have a bad insulator on your distributor pass-through. Tests good, but when you get the added shot of juice from the condensor it arcs. Not entirely sure about it, but I would look there. You can put a test light (the old incandescent one) across the input terminals of your coil and it should flash when you are cranking the engine, if it doesn't you won't have spark.
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190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
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Jim.ME
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Posted: Yesterday at 11:54am |
To see the light flash when the points are working properly the lead needs to be grounded and the probe goes on the same terminal of the coil as the wire that goes to the distributor is connected to. New points, as well as used can develop an oxidized coating on them. After installation run a piece of uncoated card stock, brown paper bag, or even a folded-up dollar bill, between the closed points to clean them |
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 16 hours 31 minutes ago at 7:27pm |
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I have seen exactly what Ted said. That little insulator was cracked and grounded out. HTH Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 3 hours 12 minutes ago at 8:46am |
I had a little time yesterday, so I disconnected the coil wire from the distributer and held it (with a pair of insulated pliers) close to a good ground. No spark when turning it over. I then tried a coil off a parts tractor. Still no spark. I then tried another new coil, still no spark. I also tried all three coils using a jumper wire directly from the battery to the negative (input) side of the coil. Still no spark.
I am going to try to test the insulating block today. Any hints on how to check for current loss?
Any other ideas? |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 2 hours 36 minutes ago at 9:22am |
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For some reason the points or condensor aren't doing their job.
Edited by DrAllis - 2 hours 36 minutes ago at 9:22am
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 2 hours 28 minutes ago at 9:30am |
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take the SMALL WIRE going out of the coil to the dirstributor POINT and use it touch GROUND on the frame ON- OFF- ON- OFF quickly ... like the point opening and closing.. You should see the Coil BIG WIRE spark.... That will prove to you that the point / condenser / insulator are not doing their job.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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TedN
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Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
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Posted: 53 minutes ago at 11:05am |
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If I remember correctlythere are two pieces to the insulator, the inner piece has the tube that passes through the housing and the outer is more like a washer. usually it is the inner piece that has a crack, and you don't see it because it doesn't open up until you tighten things down, but a crack in either piece will cause the issue you are seeing. I don't know what your plans are for the tractor, but if not restoration or vintage pulling I would consider a Pertronix Ignitor electronic ignition. They make them for most any application now, including 6 volt positive ground. I know there will be some that say they are unreliable, but I haven't had a problem with one yet, and have installed many over the years, the most recent being a JD 40. I always use a new internal resistor coil (I think I saw a discussion on coils on this forum a few days ago). If you are staying with points disassemble the insulator and check closely for damage, usualy it is a crack.
Ted
Quick add - whenever I change to electronic ignition I always put the parts that I removed back in the box the ignition came in and label it so I can promptly store it somewhere in the shop so it will be in my way for years until I am looking for it when it is gone forever.
Edited by TedN - 48 minutes ago at 11:10am
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190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
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