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mutti71 
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Joined: 13 Jul 2021
Location: NY
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 Topic: Frozen engine
Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 10:15am |
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My son has a 1948 Allis Chalmers C tractor. I sat for couple of years with no oil in it. Engine is frozen. Besides taking the whole engine apart, has anyone tried using Marvel Mystery oil to free up the engine? This is the first route we would like to try. I know it takes 4 qts of oil in the belly pan. How much Mystery oil would I need to pour to get it up to the cam shaft area and maybe up into the cylinders? We had some coolant in the oil pan back then so we will be replacing the head gasket and inspect the pistons. Thanks
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AC7060IL
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Location: central IL
Points: 3603
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 10:52am |
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Try removing spark plugs then spray/pour your preferred type of oil(marvel, ATF, wd40, etc) into piston cylinders, & allow it to soak overnight. Remove valve cover & inspect valves condition. If valves & valve train look good, try to spin crankshaft. If it won’t move, repeat cylinder soak....
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dfwallis
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023
Location: DFW
Points: 897
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 11:08am |
 mutti71 wrote:
My son has a 1948 Allis Chalmers C tractor. I sat for couple of years with no oil in it. Engine is frozen. Besides taking the whole engine apart, has anyone tried using Marvel Mystery oil to free up the engine? This is the first route we would like to try. I know it takes 4 qts of oil in the belly pan. How much Mystery oil would I need to pour to get it up to the cam shaft area and maybe up into the cylinders? We had some coolant in the oil pan back then so we will be replacing the head gasket and inspect the pistons. Thanks |
Liquid wrench or similar rust reforming/penetrating product would probably work better than straight lubricating oil. A lot of recommendations for 50/50 ATF/acetone, but neither of those is a rust reformer (despite the widespread internet articles). It may be good enough depending, but an actual penetrant/reformer is even better. Acetone will dissolve other gunk that may additionally contribute to the stuck condition (like shellac or gummed oil).
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 89101
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 12:29pm |
jack one rear tire off the ground 2 inches and with tractor in gear, try to ROCK the tire back and forth every few days... Thats better than prying on the crank.
also with the tractor in neutral, the tire should roll.. That will tell you the transmission is not also locked up.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dfwallis
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023
Location: DFW
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 12:57pm |
Theres also WD 40 rust remover soak:
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 5:27pm |
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Take it apart and have a look. You are flying blind now because you don't know what you are dealing with. All it will cost you is a head gasket.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 5:38pm |
The first thing I would do is use a borescope to see how bad it really is. It may be a complete waste of time to bother soaking it.
I bought a D17 a few years ago. The owner told me he drove it in a storage container a couple months ago. (He lied!!!) I soaked it in 50/50 acetone and ATF all winter in the garage. When I finally took the head off it in the spring, the cylinder that the exhaust valve was open on was rusted and pitted. I ended up putting the sleeve in the (20 ton) press to get the rod out. When I tried to press it, I ended up breaking the top pf the piston off.
I could have soaked that for a century with no success. Try a borescope and if it looks bad, remove the head. Even if you loosen it, the rings are probably froze to the piston.
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Alberta Phil
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 7:17pm |
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You mentioned in your first post that you plan on replacing the head gasket and inspect the pistons, so you might just as well remove the head first. Then you can have a good look at the pistons, cylinders and valves. And have a better chance of freeing everything up without damaging anything further.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 7:40pm |
Alberta Phil wrote:
You mentioned in your first post that you plan on replacing the head gasket and inspect the pistons, so you might just as well remove the head first. Then you can have a good look at the pistons, cylinders and valves. And have a better chance of freeing everything up without damaging anything further.
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X2. All of my concoctions failed to loosen my project engine. Pistons had to be pressed out in a big press. Wrist pins were seized in both piston and connecting rods. Cam and crank bearings and governor all seized.
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 7:45pm |
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If it was outside, chances are good that it's going to need pistons and sleeves. I see all these people thar say they have loosened an engine. They are much luckier than I am.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 7:53pm |
For the record, MMO IS ATF. Had a professor back in college who had samples tested. As for your predicament, as others have said, inspection and dis-assembly is likely the best route... 
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dfwallis
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 8:07pm |
dfwallis wrote:
Theres also WD 40 rust remover soak:
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I'm planning a test of 50/50 atf/acetone, pure atf, pure acetone, and some rust reformer products in the next few days. Should be fun :)
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sparky
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 8:23pm |
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Well just for fun try Coke Classic. No kidding.
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It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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dfwallis
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 8:48pm |
sparky wrote:
Well just for fun try Coke Classic. No kidding. |
Only if you remove it fairly quickly. Someone once left a leaking coke on my grandpa's planer platform for an extended period...ate a quarter sized 1/8 inch deep hole in the steel :(
Of course that was 1960's coke, maybe it was stronger then :)
Edited by dfwallis - 27 Mar 2023 at 8:49pm
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Tbone95
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Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 6:27am |
dfwallis wrote:
sparky wrote:
Well just for fun try Coke Classic. No kidding. |
Only if you remove it fairly quickly. Someone once left a leaking coke on my grandpa's planer platform for an extended period...ate a quarter sized 1/8 inch deep hole in the steel :(
Of course that was 1960's coke, maybe it was stronger then :)
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So just imagine what it does to your teeth!
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 6:47am |
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“.. Well just for fun try Coke Classic. No kidding.”
It contains Phosphoric Acid, and does work. There are probably other things that work better, though.
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Lon(MN)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 6:54am |
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I parted a B couple months ago. Engine ran but not that great. After the head was off I could see the engine had been stuck. Some rings were still rusted to the pistons. Much of the engine is splash oiled so the rust got into the bearings and wiped out the crank. In my shop it is fix it right or forget it.
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http://lonsallischalmers.com
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