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D15 II head gaskets |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Posted: 25 Oct 2022 at 10:24am |
On first rebuild, we used the head gasket supplied by Reliance with rebuild kit. Don't remember brand, but it had a fire ring. Installed that using a spray on copper gasket sealer. Torqued down bolts, filled block with water and let it sit overnight. By next morning, had water dripping out of oil pan......so that head gasket failed. Ordered a new one from local supplier, and when that showed up, it was a Victor 3332.....no fire ring. Meanwhile, found a NOS Fel-Pro with fire ring, installed that dry, as per instructions, and it held fine until recently when the valve failed and we took it down again. Now need a new head gasket. We have the Victor 3332......no fire ring. In fact, two of them. One red.......one gray. Does anyone know the number of the comparable Victor, with fire ring? And a source for it? |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Alex09(WI)
Orange Level Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Location: CECIL WI Points: 1699 |
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To get one with fire ring, I believe you have to go to the D14 head gasket. A-C # 227577 or 277276.
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www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Series II has the 160 engine. Doubt they are the same?
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Alex09(WI)
Orange Level Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Location: CECIL WI Points: 1699 |
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No, they are not the same. The D15 factory head gasket doesn't have the fire rings.
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www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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I made fire rings and put in mine. Has held for years. MACK
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JimD
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Mounds, OK Points: 2098 |
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Ive used the 149 gasket with fire rings on the 160 on many different tractors with no problems
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Owner of OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central.
We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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MoDirt - I have several back up head gasket new unused and still in there packaging. One has no stamping on it but the other says Victor Reinze 3145. Send me a PM with your email and can snap a pic of that gasket if it would help!
Good luck with this project! ~ Orangeman Edited by orangeman - 20 Nov 2022 at 4:19pm |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19700 |
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I used a G-149 head gasket on one D-15 series 2 that failed a grey colored/no fire ring gasket within 100 hrs of my installing it new. I wasn't going to do it again and that was 20 yrs ago. I did one more like that to prevent any trouble. Compression will be reduced slightly.
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4461 |
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I've also used the the 149 fire ringed head gasket on the turbocharged 160 engine , now in a D10 chassis. I've only blew 1 in nearly 25 years.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Knowing a valid number helps. This does look right doesn't it? No description though. https://www.amazon.com/Victor-Reinz-3145-Cylinder-Gasket/dp/B007ZJQLSY
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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On the difference between 149 and 160, is the head size, etc. the same? Same bore, different stroke?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19700 |
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G-149 is 3 1/2" bore. G-160 is 3 9/16" bore. Same stroke. Same length head and block.
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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So deal is extra 1/16th diameter, but split in half that is 1 /32nd and not enough difference to project into cylinder to matter? And Victor gasket from Amazon OK?
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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MoDirt: I look on Amazon for the VR 3145 gasket that appears to be the same gasket I have. HTH's. ~ Orangeman
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ACinSC
Orange Level Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Points: 2610 |
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Just for comparison , my 149 gas D 15 had a FELPRO 7914 head gasket . Don't know new number , but it did have fire rings . I got it from Sandy Lake . Good luck !
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Victor 3145 ordered. Fel-Pro 7914 appears to be similar, but no stock or supply from normal sources, including Fel-Pro store on Amazon. Have not tried Sandy Lake Brenda, but will if the 3145 doesn't pan out. Edited by modirt - 21 Nov 2022 at 4:00pm |
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JimIA
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Castalia Iowa Points: 1979 |
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Installed the AGCO one(no fire rings) in my tractor during a fresh overhaul, installed it dry as stated on the gasket. Leaked within the first year. Replaced with another AGCO gasket but put on a thin coat of permetex gasket eliminator. Has held for 22 years, kicks out factory 46 HP on the dyno.
Jim
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An open eye is much more observant than an open mouth
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Have heard a nasty rumor that the gaskets AGCO currently sells is same as in Reliance overhaul kits. We tried that and it didn't last 24 hours before it leaked. Local AGCO dealer didn't have one anyway, and if I heard what I think I heard him say, price was over 2X what Victor is from Amazon. Fire ring unknown. We talked to Reliance about failed gasket and they gave us $83 credit for it. 2X the cost for something that doesn't work does not impress me much. |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19700 |
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Tbran mentioned one time that an Industrial engine (615 tractor??) had a different head gasket than a farm tractor because of failures. It had fire rings, that as far as I'm concerned, always should have been there. On tractors that don't work hard, apparently there isn't a problem. I know as a teenager, I had the head off Dad's S2 at least twice and when it got retired to loader work the problems seemed to go away. Stick a G-149 gasket in it.
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4461 |
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Actually the G160 (D15 II) has a 3-5/8" bore
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19700 |
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That's what happens when I depend on my memory. Thanks.
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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As a clarification to the above, the Victor Reinz 3045 is designed with fire rings. Heck if that doesn't work, then sheet copper could be annealed and used,although it would take some time and a mill to make it.
~ Orangeman
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Copper would need fire rings, so why not just use a good fire ring with a new gasket?
MACK
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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Mack: what is involved to make the fire rings? ~ Orangeman
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Make them round, exact Dia. and bronze ends together. MACK
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6744 |
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Amazon cancelled my order on the Victor, so probably no longer available. So back to looking for a head gasket. I'm OK with either 149 or 160, but need a number for either one and a source. Prefer Victor or Fel-Pro. Can try Sandy Lake Brenda? Or if someone wants to peddle one to me from their stash, send me a PM.
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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Good Morning Modirt and the AC team:
Allis Chalmers released a Service Bulletin specific to the 160 gas engine equipped in the D-15, I 60, I 600, 600 series forklifts and the H-3 crawler. The bulletin reads as follows: Proper timing of this engine is very essential for top performance and to reduce head gasket burning between cylinders. Many gas engines are timed at idle; however this engine must be timed at high idle to/ insure high performance. We have found the 160 cu.in. engine is subject to excessive detonation when timed at 1750 or 2000 R.P.M. This detonation could cause the head gasket No. 0237642-4 to become burned and result in a premature gasket failure. Engineering has experimented with several different type gaskets and found all gaskets burn if detonation occurs. Tests have proven with the engine timed at 25 degress at 2175-2200, or high idle detonation is eliminated or held to a minimum. When pre-delivering or servicing any unit with the 160 cu.in. engine the head bolts should be torqued (1/2" capscrews to 95-100 ft. lbs. and (7/16" capscrews) 75 to 80 ft. lbs and the engine timed at 25 degress at 2175-2200 instead of 1750 or 2000 engine R.P.M. as instructed by the Service Manual. To eliminate detonation and prevent engine head gasket failure a gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 91 octane must be used. Note to Administrator: Please consider posting this under the Knowledge Base Section as it may be of use to others in the future. Respectfully ~ Orangeman
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19700 |
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That is one reason I was always taught to set the ignition timing on ALL A-C gas engines at full throttle so there are no mistakes. The advance mechanism is fully advanced for sure at that speed. What was the date and number on that bulletin?? My book must not go back that far ??
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1705 |
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Good Morning Dr. Allis: reference 1972 Service Training Seminar - Allis Chalmers Industrial Tractor Division. If memory serves it was released under the Farm Equipment Division as well. When I get caught up from our 4' dumping of snow will dig into the F.E. Service Bulletin database and follow up.
Hope everyone here has a wonderful holiday season! Respectfully, ~ Orangeman
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