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ocharry 
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Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Location: missouri
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 Topic: 170 power steering
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 12:33pm |
hey guys been a while since i been here...but i think i need some wisdom from the crowd about my 170
yesterday i had a bucket full of wood up at the house unloading and i noticeted the inner side of the right wheel looked like it had a lot of greese coming out the back side of the hub...hmmm maybe need a new seal or bearings or both
so when i put the tractor in the barn i used the bucket to pick the front end up and check the wheel bearings...hmmm both were tight no slop, but i did notice when i pushed on the wheel side to side the tye rods seem to be moving up and down in the center....what the heck is that?? so i got a light and had a closer look
seems the shaft coming out of the steering motor or gear box or what ever it is called has dropped down some...bout an eigth of an inch it looks like..... i think i can see the bearing ...letting the shaft move side to side
so i guess i need you fellas to help me with this...where can i get a break down of the gear box/hydrolic motor/steering pump????
or is there a nut on top of the shaft that has maybe come loose letting the shaft fall down and let the bearings loose??
and can i get to this without taking all the sheet metal off and the radiator out..or maybe it has to come down farther than that...my fear is this aint gona be easy...never is for me
i just hope i have caught it before it has done any real damage....and maybe a couple new bearings and seals and im good as new again
i love this old tractor, so fixing it is a must do for me
it is a 1970 ac170 gas
so what is the wisdom of the crowd on this.....im gona fix it ...dont really mater what it takes
ocharry
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DSeries4
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 3:19pm |
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Grease coming out of the hub is no big deal, probably need a new seal.
First things first, I would definitely make sure your tie rod ends are not the problem. Secondly, the plate that connects to the splined shaft is held on with a roll pin. If the roll pin is worn, things will be a bit more sloppy - a new roll pin could help.
Lastly, check to see if the splined shaft moves up and down. If so, the bearings it rides on could be worn. There is no access from the top, so you would have to tackle it from the bottom - the axle itself might have to come out for that. Have a look on the AGCO parts book website, it will show you how things go together. My experience is from a D17 Series 4. A 1970 170 would have a similar setup.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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ocharry
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Location: missouri
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Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:00pm |
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D thanks for the response
Yeah I wasn't to worried about the hub grease...easy fix
But this other issue...well yeah I'm kinda worried
The tye rod connection was the first thing I looked at...they are both tight but the plate they are fastened to is the part that is moving around and it looks like it is tight on the shaft..so the whole shaft is what is moving..so unless the roll pin is inside the gear box, everything else looks pretty tight...but the shaft does look like it has dropped down out of the box and the bearing is loose on the race
I will say the box looks like it is bolted to the bolster from the bottom and it could be removed but I think it is right under the radiator...I do need to get under there and look at it better
I will go to the Web sight you suggested and see what they have...I just can't believe that shaft is held in the box by a roll pin to keep the bearings tight..how would you adjust the bearing seat?
I will look it over better tomorrow with better light and a closer eye
Also this tractor does not have the cylinder to make the power steering work...it's all happening in the box
Thanks again
Ocharry
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MACK
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:00pm |
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After so long , the threads ware out on shaft which let's assembly drop down to role pin through nut. New nut and hope there is enough thread for new nut. MACK
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ocharry
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Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:12pm |
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So Mack
The nut is on the inside of the box I'm gathering? And the threads wear on the shaft..so maybe a new nut could fix this or not?
So could need a new shaft to really fix this for another 50 years
So I'm guessing the whole front end of the tractor needs to come off...sheet metal radiator and everything else to get to it to get it off?
Thx Mack
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 6:03am |
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What you are seeing is the swing arm loose on the SPLINED shaft. It is held with a roll pin, but it may be worn enough that a new roll pin does nothing. Just forget about it because it cannot fall off. New parts not available.
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ocharry
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Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 9:47am |
well i got under there with a good light and a pry bar yesterday
the tye rods are tight, the swing arm and roll pin are tight on the spline....but i can move the shaft or axle up and down with the pry bar
so i am guessing that i have had a bearing failiure (or what ever holds the assembly in the box has come loose and let the shaft fall out or down) on the shaft/axle inside the gear box/ hydrolic motor...and im pretty sure it will have to come out or off to fix this ...if i can get parts...if it is just the bearings and seals and no gear box or casting damage then maybe it wont be to bad....but if the casting is worn then it will for sure be a little more complicated
for now i need to find a break down picture/schematic just to have a look and see just what is really involved
the real first steps is to get the loader off and then get the hood off and radiator out....but i dont want to start anything until i get a picture and have a look to see what could have happened
ocharry
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DSeries4
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Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 8:10pm |
Most likely it's just the bearing. Go to the AGCO parts books website ( www.agcopartsbooks.com), click the guest button and enter 170 as the model for AGCO Allis. Then go to the steering section and it will show you everything. By the way, it is not the steering motor - that is under the steering wheel.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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ocharry
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Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 9:12am |
yeah D i watched a guy on you tube do very similar to what i will be doing to the gear box on a d17...probably not exactly but real close i would guess
but yes i did kinda figure that out that the hydrolic motor was at the steering wheel end of things and the part i will be working on is the steering gear box...lol...yeah i was thinking it was just a box that had to come off..after the video the light bulb came on and that gear box is the whole front bolster...lol...im guessing 4-500lbs worth...silly me
looks like it will be a good winter project....probably going to start the shuffle and get things organized and start today with getting the loader off...and getting the big tools in place
still would like to see a break down and some specs on clearance and such..but hey it wont be the first time i have set something like this up....manual or something would be nice though
anyway guys thanks for the help
ocharry
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JC-WI
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Location: wisconsin
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Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 1:31pm |
Ocharry, what your dealing with is the fact that the steering box is filled with oil from factory, and seems to be forgotten from that time on. Filler hole is above the steering cylinder, under the tin work that wraps around the radiator. It is an allen plug and sits at an angle under there and can be easily seen when you know what you are looking at.... fact is nobody ever checks the steering box for oil. so hence when the seal goes out around the shaft that has the splines, the box loses oil and eventually runs dry and nobody pays attention to that and the bearing runs dry and dirt and rust gets up in there eventually. My 170 had a rough previous life and the owners broke the casting that holds the front axle... the bolster and steering box cover are held in place with bolts going up into the steering box, and mine were stripped out there, thus I found the casting swung out and let the splined arm fall off since there was no roll pin in it. The gear and splined shaft are held in by the cover which has shims between it and the steering case, held by 6 bolts, two hold the plate that has the lower race in it and the seal, and the other four holds the bolster and the plate. This plate/cover is on my tractor and in repair stage here. You can see seal through center hole, race for tapered bearing sits above seal. had to weld in two holes because they were broken out. Yours won't be this bad, hopefully. The two 1/2 x 1 1/2 bolts are torqued to 90-100 ft. lbs. The four 5/8" x 2" are torqued to 130-140 ft. lbs. And the axle rear pivot bolt torqued to minimum of 150 ft. lbs. This is the steering housing /block. Looking up from underside. Center splined shaft (not shown) has gear on it and cone bearing that centers in race in block. Previous owner had gear off by one or two teeth and it would steer extreme right and couldn't hardly turn left,, so keep your timing in place when taking apart so it doesn't happen to you. Had to drill and tap three holes and put in helicoils. Not so bad of a job but put on some good sealer above 'o'ring on cover that slips into the opening in this pic.. Don't know what type of monkeys were playing the day they repaired this tractor front end. but... you would think they would have gotten a better steer arm instead of welding tie rod to it. I did weld a piece into this arm and ran a tapered reamer into it so it is like original. And while your there, check the pivot pin on the front axle and bushing too in pivot block. and if worn to much weld the pin up and file it down to size. Hope this helps some.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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ocharry
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 10:28am |
JC.... yeah like i said earier i watched a guy on you tube do a D17 and i kinda figure it would be similar
your pics are a nice touch too....i dont think mine is quite as bad as yours seems to be...nothing is broken that i can see but for sure the oil has drained out of the steering box...im hoping not all of the oil has drained out, but it aint looking to good...i will say that from what i can see of the bearing where the seal is at....(not to much but it is hanging out, about 1/8" so im sure the seal is gone)...anyway the bearing still looks oily.....not sure what happened in there but im gona find out
i am the third owner and i have had this tractor for about 8 years.... it has never been left out since it has been here and my guess is as good as the paint is i dought it has been left out much at all in its life
i just found this problem by a fluke...looking at something else.....but i know it has a problem and i cant let it go...that aint me...i gota fix this or it will drive me nuts
i did go to the agco page D posted yesterday and got what i kinda think i needed....a good look at the break down and i made a preliminary parts list, but you never really know until you get in there
trying to get everthing i am going to need done with the loader before i take her apart...its only me here so im not sure just how long it will be apart and back together... but i got all winter if it takes that long...never know about getting parts or other things that may come up
yep i got a list of things to do while it is down...gas gauge has never worked so i want to look at that while the hood is off and i am going to move the battery out of that hole it is in to a new spot i have already prepared and has been waiting for the hood to come off...lol...but it will be way easier to access the battery if it goes bad in the future
yep i will be checking the pivot pin too and if its bad it will get a fix before it goes back together....lots of heavy lifting to do for this old guy but im gona "git r done"...lol
thanks guys for the insight and the pics JC i like that
so while im asking questions..what kind of oil goes in the steering box???.. maybe 80-90W gear oil??
ocharry
Edited by ocharry - 14 Oct 2022 at 10:30am
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BigGuy1000
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 3:42pm |
Manual page 22 says "Allis Chalmers Special Gear Lube from your Allis Chalmers dealer". What is that??? Dealer does not have anything by that name!!!!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 7:37pm |
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80/90 weight gear oil. Anything is better than empty..\
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JC-WI
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Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 1:30am |
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Ocharry, this is the tractor that I asked on this site several years ago about what possibly could be wrong with it since it would only steer about 7 degrees to the left and maybe 15 to the right. Was it the steering cylinder or not enough hyd. psi or ???, only to find out the spindle assembly had so much rust inside the support tube that it was binding that bad, sure surprised me. After cleaning the spindle supports out, I was able to try driving it only to find out it needed the engine clutch replaced, so it sat several years until last year when I replaced the clutch. So this spring I put a mounted plow on it and plowed about 3 acres when the front end twisted out from under it. Had to take it apart, to drill and tap for the heli-coils. When installing of the bottom bearing support, I left the gear off the first time to measure the bearing gap... Not the right way, had to put gear back on and found I needed to just take one thin shim out to not have resistance but also not to have any slop. I put 80-90 weight oil in.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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ocharry
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 9:25am |
JC.. yeah your tractor sure looks like it was busted up..and the guy on you tube i watched ..man his old d 17 was really busted up too..... i dont know how guys can abuse equiptment like that...but it happens...i know the tractor i had befor this one was like that...but i brought her back and used it for 30 years...so doing this to this tractor should be a not to bad of a job i guess
got a parts list and i plan on calling the local dealer and getting the stuff in the mail..gona get a couple of the steel shims and a few of the gaskets so i can have a good assortment for the stack up to get the bearing fitment good
just from looking at it i dont think i need anything but new bearings...well i guess you never know for sure untill you get the thing opend up how much wear there really is ...but im hoping that all it really needs is bearings and seals so that what im gona order for now until i get it out and open
i got the loader off the other day ...man she looks naked with that thing off ..lol...but i got all the hood bolts out and some other things ready to come off....of course it is getting cold as heck here and the dang pellet stove didnt want to work yesterday so i had to trouble shoot that and get it running and i had other things to do because the GF said she was cold......lol...was kinda cool i will admit
but today i am planning on getting the jacks under it and get everything ready to take the big bolts out...lol
got other things i want to do to it while it is apart too....fuel gauge has never worked..be nice to get it working again...and i want to move the battery..but that stuff if pretty minor
other than that this old gal is pretty solid....she is for sure a keeper
ocharry
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JC-WI
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 10:22am |
Hopefully you won't need anymore shims. On mine, I was surprised at how good the bearings were inside despite the years of heii it had been through.
Gas gauge could be bad, but the float assembly can be the bigger problem. Specially where the resistor wires are on the sender unit. or could be worse both the resistor and float be bad... or rather the whole sending unit with the new style see thru float.
 When I seen this, and took a good look inside tank, I got another tank and it had the sender in it... but the carbon button for the resister is gone so it is not accurate.
While messing with the fuel system, maybe think about moving the sediment bowl out to where it is easier to get at if you need to clean it.
As for the battery, I have seen a few that were modified. One was modified to have the hood cut a few inches higher and the fellow framed in a door into side panel and up into the cut out area of the hood so it was easy access. Another was hung off the side frame of the tractor, and another hung it under the floor board sorta like a 180 but it looked kinda low to me. I just leave the battery in it's present location but use an 8" tall battery (not counting the post height) an able to slip them in and out with a little tipping to get post under hood edge. not bad, but when a battery starts failing in the 170's, they are replaced with a new battery and good for another number of years. Though, I don't particularly like a battery that close to the gas tank,  I guess mine will just stay there... for now. 
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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ocharry
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 11:17am |
not sure what is going on with the gauge but i wan to get it working if i can
as for the battery..this loader is one that has just the front brakets from about the middle of the tractor forward so i made a rear frame the hooks to the rear mount of the loader and runs to the rear axle.. it really made the whole set up much more solid
but while i was doing the rear rails for this frame i built in a platform for a battery box...i also built in a step on the rail and a couple of other creature comforts for old guys...not quite the spring in these legs as there used to be..lol...but anyway i was anticipating moving the battery then...just to make it easier to access...the battery will be tucked in close to the frame rail and just aft of the loader upright ... i was going to wait untill the battery went bad ...but now is the time for the move...then i dont have to take the hood off again...lol...i hope
yeah im pretty sure i lost the lower bearing....no idea how long there has not been any oil in this..and with the loader and any extra weight it carries im sure there was extra wear on that bearing...esspecialy with no oil...it is prolly a good thing we are both retired..lol...but i will say just like the battery being hidden the oil fill plug for this gearbox is for sure hidden...i been looking for it ever since you said it had one and i cant find it...maybe when i get the radiator off it will show up...i may have to do something about relocating it too..lol
ocharry
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JC-WI
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 7:36pm |
Ocharry, some things become disguised with age, an elements. Can you find the fill plug? Maybe I need to clean off the dirt some... Does that help in finding where to look? Like I had said before, " Filler hole is above the steering cylinder, under the tin work that
wraps around the radiator. It is an allen plug and sits at an angle
under there and can be easily seen when you know what you are looking
at." just gotta look in the right place. You could do like chrysler does for their auto trannies, they don't supply any method to check oil other than to pull a cap off and run a wire down to check the tranny fluid.
Know what you mean about not being as spry as we were when younger. thinking of putting on two steps to get on 170 where as the D17 has only one step.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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DrAllis
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 8:01pm |
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The first two things I did to my high-deck One-Seventy was move the sediment bowl to a much better place and place a battery jump post just behind the hydraulic pump for battery charging or jump starting. The original under hood battery location was terrible.
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Steve A
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Posted: 18 Oct 2022 at 8:22pm |
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Thanks JC for the pics. I had no idea that fill plug existed.
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Oldwrench
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Posted: 19 Oct 2022 at 6:44am |
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While we're on the subject, does the D17 IV with wide front end have the same hex plug as the 170? The only oil filler I have seen is the tall one in front of the radiator for adding ATF for the hydraulics. Is there a separate plug for gear oil elsewhere?
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ocharry
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Posted: 19 Oct 2022 at 10:08am |
see right there...i did see that plug on mine but i was looking for a bigger plug..lol...yeah my old gal aint quite as dirty as the first pic you show....maybe about like the second one...so that little plug was easy to see...and i said to self....that cant be it...to small and in the wrong place.....lmao....but ill be dang that was it ....good thing it wasnt a snake...yeah i was looking for a 1" or so plug
yeah the step i put on the rail for the loader is kinda a step and a half...step on the step and then on a wide spot on the rail and then on the original tractor pad...oh it is soooo much better...lol....i will see if i can find a pic on the pooter here and post it for ya
i think i am gona take some pics of this project along too ....sure is helpful with you tacking pics of your ventures
ocharry
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ocharry
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Posted: 19 Oct 2022 at 10:55am |
ok JC here is a pic of the rail and step..and the new battery location when i get done...lol...that was easy and i got it all in 1 pic....dang smart as a hog...lol
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JC-WI
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Posted: 19 Oct 2022 at 1:08pm |
Congratulations on picture posting, ye done good. Here is the step on for my father. He sure liked it better than the
L step from a 190 that had been bolted on back in 1972. Been really
nice having that step on there since about the 80's. This step was
repaired once because of not watching out for a dang stump that stuck up
just enough to stop the bottom step.
Ocharry,
may I make a suggestion? Keep that spot for your 'extra' tool box and
put the battery holder on the right side so cable is shorter to the
solenoid.
Old Wrench, No plug there on a D17 like on a 170.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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ocharry
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Posted: 20 Oct 2022 at 9:13am |
yeah JC when i was putting the rear frame together i wanted to put the battery on the right side but the hydrolic pump is there and it made the box set out about 4 inches farther so that is why i put it on the left side to get it tucked in closer...shouldnt make the cable to much longer than it is now...but i hear ya on the thought
i had a step on the tractor i made that bolted onto the foot pad that worked ok but when i put the other frame work on, it had to come off and that is how it got to where it is now....it is WAY better than the L step i had on there before.....the old one was tossed in the steel pile waiting to be repurposed ...lol
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DSeries4
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Posted: 20 Oct 2022 at 8:58pm |
 Oldwrench wrote:
While we're on the subject, does the D17 IV with wide front end have the same hex plug as the 170? The only oil filler I have seen is the tall one in front of the radiator for adding ATF for the hydraulics. Is there a separate plug for gear oil elsewhere?
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The casting under the radiator on the D17 IV is just for power steering only - nothing else. Remove the breather and use ATF or hydraulic fluid. The reservoir for the hydraulic system is the torque tube.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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