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D-17 Timing
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Lowtemp View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Jan 2022
Location: Poynette, Wisco
Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lowtemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-17 Timing
    Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 7:09pm
My D-17 sounds like it is working while at rest. When I loosen the distributor and turn it to advance the timing it has no effect. Is the problem a worn distributor?
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tbran View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3507 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 7:48pm
A worn distributor will not affect static timing.  I time ours by running til thermostats open then advance the timing til it "kicks back" while cranking due to fast timing, then backing off.  IF it pings when under load make sure it is not running lean by setting the main load jet.  Run it at WOT then screw in the main load jet til the rpm starts to drop then open up til it picks up the rpm then add a quarter to half turn more.  Your issue could be a bad fuel mixture at idle.  Turning the idle jet in at low idle should richen the mixture til it smokes black, then back it out til it is clean and runs good them maybe a tad in to help it tranision from low idle to high main jet running.  After this you WILL see a difference in timing or you have a magic engine... Finally a worn distributor can result in point bounce, inability to maintain point clearance  or misfiring at high idle or load. 
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Joined: 11 Jan 2022
Location: Poynette, Wisco
Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lowtemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 9:06am
Thank You!
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21683 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 9:14am
One thing to be concerned about if it is an older D-17 with the power steering pump underneath the distributer, is a dry compartment for the two gears that drive the distributer. This is pretty common that no one ever checks the oil and it has leaked out thru worn out parts related to the tachometer cable. Those drive gears will eventually wear out running dry. I don't really buy your story that advancing the timing doesn't change the sound of the engine. You need to be doing this with the engine revved up half-way or better, not idling. Wide open probably best. If you advance the timing (CCW looking down on top of the dist) enough it will change the sound if it is truly timing retarded to begin with. Make a mark on the distributer flange area to KNOW where you are before you start screwing around with the timing. A timing light is absolutely the best way.
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 6041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 3:59pm
I'll second Doc's suspicion that something isn't quite right.

IF it sounds like it's laboring at idle, that means that either it's still working, or SOME aspect of timing isn't right.

The stock distributor has a mechanical advance that is centrifugal.  Once down to a certain speed, the advance springs SHOULD pull the weights back, which retires timing back to significantly later than 'kickback' range... and at that timing, it will NOT have the sound of 'laboring'.

I would certainly check those gears, but I'd also check to see wether the advance mech is actually moving.  if it IS, you might have a broken spring (or two), or you could simply not have the engine idle speed down low enough to allow the weights to pull in.

It isn't a common thing, but a bad condenser, points, or worn diz shaft could do it, too... and look out for slop in the diz shaft upper bushing.  If you can pop the rotor off and wiggle the shaft fore-aft-side-to-side, the shaft bushing is worn, you won't get stable spark event timing.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 8:53pm
If it has a power steering pump ahead of distributor, I'm sure the governor gear is loose on shaft, getting ready to shear key.                        MACK
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 6041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 9:53am
Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

If it has a power steering pump ahead of distributor, I'm sure the governor gear is loose on shaft, getting ready to shear key.                        MACK


Yeah!

One thing that should've been asked:

Is the power director in neutral?
Is the transmission in neutral?
Is the engine clutch (left pedal) depressed?

With the engine clutch depressed, there should be no significant load from the transmission or power director, and (as long as it's not a Series IV) no hydraulic load.

IF the engine's sound changes when you depress the engine clutch, there's some sort of drag going on.

Keep in mind, that one can set the brakes, leave transmission in gear, and release the clutch, with the power director lever in neutral position, and the D17 SHOULDN'T move...  But that doesn't mean there won't be a load on the engine, on account of slight friction in the PD clutch packs and thick oil.  My D17 Series 1 in NEUTRAL, will labor a little bit while the transmission warms up, so initial cold-start is always with foot clutch in, PD in neutral, and trans in neutral, and I let it get past it's initial coldness before letting out the foot clutch, lest she'll stall, just from the load of hydraulic pump and spinning trans gears.Wink
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Joined: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Owego,NY
Points: 175 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Driverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2022 at 1:49pm
I am interested in the Doctor's reply about checking the oil in the distributed drive. I have an early D17 (my late dad bought it in late 50's) it has this type power steering. I do not know how to check this reservoir... Do you pull the distributed and look in ?? Do you add oil there and then reinstall distributed ?? Obviously this has not been checked since dad passed, and I want to make sure I check it...Thank hou, and sorry to hijack this thread....Dan
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21683 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2022 at 5:15pm
Your owners manual shows a square head check plug near the base of the distributor. You were expected to use a piece of wire as a dipstick and maintain an inch or so of motor oil. What happens is the tachometer cable connection wears out and leaks the oil out of the compartment. I always packed them full of gun grease. Worked better than a dry compartment.
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Joined: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Owego,NY
Points: 175 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Driverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2022 at 8:40pm
Dr Allis, thank you so much for that info ! I was unaware of the potential problem, and now can take care of it before it becomes a problem...Your advice has helped me many times and is greatly appreciated. (I still use the WC, two WD45's,and D17 that my dad bought when I was young, and I am now 75)..
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Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Points: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry D17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 7:27am
There is a plug in behind the base of the distributor that you can screw out to add oil. It is a pain to take out and add oil. I use 80/90 oil and would consider grease but I don`t know how I would get it in.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21683 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 7:37am
Just unscrew the tach drive (or large hex plug if it doesn't have a tach drive) and pack it in there from the rear.
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