![]() |
This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | |||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Coolant??? |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Author | |
Mikez ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8602 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 27 Dec 2021 at 7:10am |
Hello everyone
There’s a similar post that made me think of this. Just had the radiator repaired in 200. It doesn’t have the filter on it, so it’s not getting the additive. I had always had intentions of putting filters on our tractors for that reason. But the other post someone said to just use I think cat coolant with additives in it. Is that what you guys suggest. Thanks
|
|
![]() |
|
Sponsored Links | |
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
If you can buy coolant that is already treated and does what a filter would do, why would you spend the time and $$$$$$$$$$ mounting a filter ?? I know of no new diesel engines that use a coolant filer. They just use the correct coolant. Cat, Cummins, Deere all have the treated stuff to sell.
|
|
![]() |
|
Alvin M ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Location: PA Points: 791 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I sold Balwin filters I used there additive
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Adding "additives" to store bought straight antifreeze mixed with iron filled well water isn't anywhere nearly as good as the pre-mixed treated coolant that is recommended by all modern day diesel engine manufacturers.
|
|
![]() |
|
Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11925 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
We've always used Alliance pre-mix in all of our Cummins engines at the power co. Red in color. Does a great job in protection as well as keeping the cooling system super clean. I remember when removing a worn water pump, how clean the inside of the engine block was! Steve@B&B
|
|
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
|
|
![]() |
|
Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1409 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just pick any of todays modern premixed coolants as the others have said and stick with it. Pick a brand that you like and can get easily. If you have multiple vehicles gradually switch them all to same stuff. Heavy truck dealerships or suppliers are a great source and their prices are usually better.
|
|
![]() |
|
tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3471 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
What one wants is neutral ph - like comes in premix - local truck shop uses litmus test strips and either acid or basic tablets to keep it there... extends antifreeze service life.
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
![]() |
|
SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8467 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
So is it likely that store bought distilled water and concentrate red is not going to have the correct ph when mixed?
|
|
![]() |
|
HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3764 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
if you have drained it, then full stranht antifreeze and distilled water 50/50 your cooling system will last many years i have not seen a coolant filter on any thing for years . if you want to put treatment stuff in we used nalcool thirty years ago
|
|
![]() |
|
KJCHRIS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: WC Iowa Points: 947 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
As already said, forget about the conditioner/filter install. Go with the extended life 50/50 mix. Most small town water systems much less a farm well don't have clean enough water to put in with the extended life coolants.
We went thru this at work nearly 20 years ago on Cat, IH & Cummins diesel engines in a fleet of 1000+ trucks, plus loaders, graders etc.. When we switched to preblended coolant we saw within 2 years a reduction in cooling system repairs and engine sleeve sealing failures.
|
|
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
|
|
![]() |
|
Mikez ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8602 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
sorry that’s kinda what I meant instead of filter using modern antifreeze. We’ll drain the block. And start with some good new stuff. Thanks
|
|
![]() |
|
MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have rebuilt a lot of AC engines over the years. If it had a coolest filter, the block was clean as new on inside and very little erosion on sleeves and block. If no filter there was always a lot of sludge and rust inside. A filter a year is a pretty cheep price to pay for a clean cooling system. MACK
|
|
![]() |
|
wjohn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: KS Points: 2158 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Wondering the same thing here. This is what I have always done as distilled has no minerals and should have a neutral pH? In fact I think a lot of manuals for various equipment used to specify using distilled water when mixing. Way cheaper than 50/50 premixed.
|
|
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
|
|
![]() |
|
Ed (Ont) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1409 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Using distilled water and mixing your coolant properly should work fine. Can’t see it saving you much by the time you run around doing that and then mixing it. But it should work. If you are doing it yourself okay. If paying someone to do maintenance would cost you more!
|
|
![]() |
|
Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2971 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
When using the good premixed coolant without a filter, Should you add more additive or drain at certain intervals?
My 185 only sees about 20 hours a year. I don't want to drain and replace every year if it isn't necessary.
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Many Cat engines are do nothing for 2 to 3,000 hrs.
|
|
![]() |
|
Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7697 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I buy straight antifreeze, then mix with distilled water. Have done that way for decades. Distilled water cost maybe a $1.25 a gallon. If you do the math, it’s cheaper to buy pure antifreeze, and distilled water.
|
|
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
But your potion is not treated to prevent cavitation erosion/sleeve pitting. That additive would be Xtra cost.
|
|
![]() |
|
FREEDGUY ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
So no straight A/F is equipped with the additives in the jug that will be mixed with distilled water ? Just curios
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Got to be careful what we're talking about here. For diesel farm tractors, you want heavy duty diesel engine coolant which is reddish pink in color !! Not any other color and not for automotive...HEAVY DUTY DIESEL ENGINE use. If you can buy it straight and use distilled water to dilute, then that is fine.
|
|
![]() |
|
Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Dr Allis, about 4 years back my AGCO dealer gave me straight green anti freeze for my brother's 7030. I assumed it was treated ...... at least I hope it was. I told them it was for the 7030 and I paid a healthy price for it.
|
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
|
![]() |
|
MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I think they gave you a straight shafting. MACK
|
|
![]() |
|
CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8447 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
One of the reasons this site is so nice. Even just daily reading through the posts is enough to teach people a few things that might help them learn something the dealer may not tell them or warn them about. |
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
And one more thing.....If you use this treated modern antifreeze, do NOT use a water filter!! The two things don't get along !! If you have a water filter, shut off the valves.
If there is a heavy duty diesel coolant out there that prevents cavitation erosion of wet sleeves and it isn't reddish/pinkish in color, I don't know about it. There could be, but I prefer to stick with what I absolutely know works.
Edited by DrAllis - 04 Jan 2022 at 8:45pm |
|
![]() |
|
Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Okay thanks
|
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
|
![]() |
|
SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8467 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
You can buy the red heavy duty diesel coolant in concentrate and add 50% distilled water. Since it's sold for that purpose,I assume it's treated accordingly. I could go out and read the bottle.
|
|
![]() |
|
Allis dave ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2971 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
We buy the Deere Coolant from the Dealer. It's a yellowish green color
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21359 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
That's nice, dave. John Deere has gasoline tractors too. So, what is this coolant designed for ??? Diesel engines with coolant filters on them?? Heavy Duty turbo diesel engines without coolant filters ??
|
|
![]() |
|
pirlbeck ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: West Central IA Points: 226 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I know this is long but there is a lot of good information in this article. At least be sure to read "HOW DO SCA'S PREVENT LINER PITTING"? HOW DO SCAs
PREVENT LINER PITTING?
Cylinder liner perforation is a
common cause of premature
failure in unprotected engines.
Liner pitting occurs as collapsing
air bubbles in the coolant scour
away at the unprotected outer
surface of the liner. Estimates
show that these imploding bubbles
can generate pressures in excess
of 60,000 PSI at the surface of the
liner wall. If left unchecked,
complete perforation of the liner is
likely. Technically, this scouring process is
known as cavitation erosion. While it
can appear anywhere on the cylinder
liner, most pitting occurs as a narrow
vertical band, perpendicular to the
axis of the crankshaft. A secondary
band may be found on the opposite
side of the liner.
The air bubbles are primarily the result
of vibration of the liner wall as the piston
travels up and down in the cylinder
bore. Therefore, any change in the
design of the engine which increases
the vibration of the liner (such as thinner
cylinder walls, longer sleeves or poor
mechanical fit) will increase the
potential for liner perforation.
To combat the effect of cavitation
erosion, all heavy-duty engine
manufacturers recommend the use of
SCAs. The SCAs coat the liner walls
with a hard oxide film that acts as a
barrier between the liner wall and the
collapsing air bubbles, but does not
significantly impede heat transfer.
While the SCAs cannot prevent the
formation or collapse of the bubbles,
the oxide film is thick enough to keep
the bubbles away from the liner
surface, thus effectively preventing
pitting of the liners.
|
|
![]() |
|
Smallfarm ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 27 May 2021 Location: New Auburn, WI Points: 32 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I use Chevron Delo ELC in everything. If I do any repair gas diesel or anything it's Delo. If it has a filter I change them. I actually just changed the heater core on my truck and added a filter. Not all filters are the same, some have chemicals some don't. My truck runs a non chemical filter I want the 25 micron filtration to prevent another plugged core. Any Ram owner knows what I'm talking about.
|
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |