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CAL(KS) 
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Location: Chapman, KS
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 Topic: Air compressor upgrade QnA
Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 7:24am |
I just upgraded the air compressor in dads shop, i was tired of the noisy oil spewing hunk. It was installed in 1992 so we got the good out of it. The replacement is a 2 stage, 5 horse, 80 gallon made in USA Emax. New compressor is 175 psi 2 stage compared to old single stage that would barely make 110. I have already purchased a rapid air 3/4 line kit as we have 1" and 3/4 impacts and i know the ole pvc system was pushing it with the old compressor. Looking to connect a 3/8 by 50 air reel and 1/2 hose coupler right at the compressor, another hose reel over the workbench about 25 feet away and then a 1/2 inch coupler and another hose reel out in large bay about 30 ft away on other side of wall.
Old system really couldnt supply enough air for the big impacts and sometimes not enough on the 3/4. With no experience in 2 stage compressors, will 175 psi be ok to run on the impacts and blow guns or should we be regulating it down? A regulator large enough to supply air for 1" impacts is pretty pricey and adds complexity if we dont need it. Compressor is adjustable down to 145-150 i believe also. Thoughts or experience?
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Dakota Dave
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Location: ND
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 7:35am |
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You'll have to regulate it down, the regulator on the compressor should be capable of regulating all the flow that its rated for. our shop air is regulated to 150 at the compressor (we have a 3 stage 50 HP compressor @ 225PSI ) and regulated down again at each outlet point. you need to look at your impact to see what its capable of. my 1/2 are supposed to be used with 110 max and the 3/4 125 max at least that's what om the label when the air hose hooks up.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 29 Nov 2021 at 7:37am
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CAL(KS)
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Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 7:50am |
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Hmm. i was kinda afraid of that. I will look at our impacts. Ideally I would regulate at compressor as 99.9% of time only 1 station used at once. I guess i dont understand the added pressure in the tank if only 110 is psi is normally required. I realize that 2 stage is quieter, cooler air and more efficient for the long run which is why i went that route, but i guess its reserve capacity?
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 8:01am |
A 3/8" hose only has one quarter the air in it that a 3/4" hose does !! THAT will severely reduce your impact gun ability !!! You need volume of air, not extreme pressure. As for the regulator, you need to 'dial in' whatever the tool requires and the loss if running long, small hoses. My 3.5" framing nailer LOVES 105PSI, puts heads JUST below the 2by4 surface, ANY more and they go waaay too deep (see THAT at 'pro house builds'), actually weakens the structure.
As it's unlikely you NEED 175PSI, reduce compressor to say 155 (another 'standard'). I'd also add an 'intercooler' if you ever want to paint.
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CAL(KS)
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Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 8:08am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
A 3/8" hose only has one quarter the air in it that a 3/4" hose does !! THAT will severely reduce your impact gun ability !!! You need volume of air, not extreme pressure. As for the regulator, you need to 'dial in' whatever the tool requires and the loss if running long, small hoses. My 3.5" framing nailer LOVES 105PSI, puts heads JUST below the 2by4 surface, ANY more and they go waaay too deep (see THAT at 'pro house builds'), actually weakens the structure.
As it's unlikely you NEED 175PSI, reduce compressor to say 155 (another 'standard'). I'd also add an 'intercooler' if you ever want to paint.
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yes the 3/8 hose reels would be for 1/2 or smaller air tools, blow guns, airing tires etc. i have a separate piece of 3/4 hose we can plug in for big impacts near compressor and at termination block near the other air reel in large shop bay. So 3/4 hose all the way to the blocks then air reels plug in and chuck for 3/4 hose to plug in.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 29 Nov 2021 at 8:22am
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 9:06am |
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If you look at a compresser curve, as you DROP the PRESSURE, your VOLUME supplied goes UP...... I have a single stage with 15 CFM.. runs at 125 psi... I have been using grinders and impacts at that pressure for 20 years.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 9:35am |
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Some run 1in line around perimeter as a loop and drop downs off that supposed to help with air supply.
There is a blue thin wall piping made just for ail systems...I forget its name.Google can probably find it.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 29 Nov 2021 at 9:37am
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 10:36am |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
Some run 1in line around perimeter as a loop and drop downs off that supposed to help with air supply.
There is a blue thin wall piping made just for ail systems...I forget its name.Google can probably find it. |
Yes, i bought a 3/4 line kit from rapid air with several dropdowns it wont be a complete loop but branches.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 11:57am |
Just some quick numbers.....
Using a smooth plastic pipe with 125 psi supply and 50 ft long, this is what you get CFM of air ...1/4 inch.......... 6 CFM ...3/8 inch ......... 13 CFM ...1/2 inch ......... 35 CFM ...3/4 inch ......... 90 CFM
this assumes the ID if the TUBE is actually the listed size... As some have mentioned, a 3/8 hose may have 1/4 inch diameter "internal fittings" ... which restrict the flow blow 3/8 .
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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ORBill
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 12:42pm |
Cal I've run similar size 2 stage compressors to your new one for over 40 years in a Commercial shop. Your 1" and 3/4" impacts need high volume not high pressure for best performance. If you are running a 3/4' main line with a 1/2" air hose you should be OK for your impacts. Best way to check if you have enough volume (properly sized lines) is to connect a pressure gauge at the tool and see if it maintains your optimum pressure (usually 90-100 psi) with the tool running. If you don't have or can't google your tools manuals you should stay around 100 psi at the tool running, no more, more pressure than that will damage the tool. You need to keep the volume of air at the recommended operating psi for best performance and tool life. You should regulate your air pressure down at the compressor, there is no need keep 175 psi in your lines just to find and create leaks. I set mine at the shop at 110 psi with a 1/2" regulator on the compressor and with the proper sized air lines was able to keep 100 psi at over 15 different air tools with 400+ feet of air line. On my 2 stage at home I have a 1/2" main line with a 3/8" reel for my higher volume tools and 1/4' air hose for the blow guns etc., regulated to 105 psi at the compressor. Works great, love the 2 stage even though a single stage will work for my home use. Good move ditching the pvc lines, they shatter like glass when they let go. HTH Bill
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Tbone95
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 1:17pm |
CAL(KS) wrote:
Hmm. i was kinda afraid of that. I will look at our impacts. Ideally I would regulate at compressor as 99.9% of time only 1 station used at once. I guess i dont understand the added pressure in the tank if only 110 is psi is normally required. I realize that 2 stage is quieter, cooler air and more efficient for the long run which is why i went that route, but i guess its reserve capacity? |
With 175 in the tank, and using regulated air at 110 or 125 at a tool, gives you an immense amount of volume of air before the supply to the tool drops below regulated pressure, and in most cases the volume of a compressor that size is more than the volume a tool takes, so you only cycle the compressor to fill the tank. If everything were regulated at 175, in theory you'd really never be using that much since that's the rating of the compressor, and it would go down to whatever the low end trip point was until it kicked on again.
Edited by Tbone95 - 29 Nov 2021 at 1:20pm
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 3:15pm |
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Your tank pressure needs to be at least slightly higher than your regulated pressure the air willdraw down before starting the compressor our hanger pressure is higher that you would find in a persona shop its 1100 feet long and 300 feet deep with a dozen drops in each bay. Supply lines are all1 1/4" Blackwell steel. Reduced th 3/4" at the drop and down to 1/2" at the point of use regulators.
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 3:28pm |
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Thanks for the input guys. I bought a 3/4 npt regulator rated for 290 cfm or so gonna start there and see how it works so we can get things up and running. It will be worlds better than what we had previously.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 29 Nov 2021 at 3:33pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2021 at 3:37pm |
Tbone, if you think about it, its a lot of WORK to get the pressure boosted up from 120 psi to 175 psi, if you only need 125 psi. Yea, you get a little more "reserve", but your working the compressor pretty hard to get that pressure that you dont need.. Better off to control at the needed pressure....... bigger tank can give more "reserve" also... but normally that is a patch for too small of compressor.
When you are using an air tool CONSTANTLY, the tank pressure will drop and the compressor will start and try to build back the pressure to the shut off point.. If your tool takes more CFM than the compressor puts out, then the pump will never shut off... If your pump puts out a little MORE CFM than the tool uses, then eventually it will shut off for a short period of time, before restarting.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:13am |
steve(ill) wrote:
Tbone, if you think about it, its a lot of WORK to get the pressure boosted up from 120 psi to 175 psi, if you only need 125 psi. Yea, you get a little more "reserve", but your working the compressor pretty hard to get that pressure that you dont need.. Better off to control at the needed pressure....... bigger tank can give more "reserve" also... but normally that is a patch for too small of compressor.
When you are using an air tool CONSTANTLY, the tank pressure will drop and the compressor will start and try to build back the pressure to the shut off point.. If your tool takes more CFM than the compressor puts out, then the pump will never shut off... If your pump puts out a little MORE CFM than the tool uses, then eventually it will shut off for a short period of time, before restarting. |
Agreed. But that's talking more about the setpoint portion of the compressor controls, when to kick off/on. I was pointing out that the tank pressure needs to be somewhat higher than the regulated use pressure. And the higher that pressure, the more reserve there is, though that may not be the most efficient way as your post suggest, I understand that.
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blue924.9
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Posted: 30 Nov 2021 at 7:48pm |
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Worked professionally in repair shops for 7 years now with compressors set at 175bto 225 psi unregulated, slightly lower at the tool of course. My IR impact has been with me all of those years and is doing fine
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hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share
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Tbone95
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Posted: 01 Dec 2021 at 6:51am |
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