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Dlesh 
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 Topic: D17 lift arms
Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 12:55pm |
I am looking at buying an early D 17, I notice when looking at it that one lift arm was what looks to be all the way up, however the other lift arm was all the way down. How are these constructed so that in operation both come up equally ?
I saw in another post that the lift arm shaft is not connected on the inside. Are there two cylinders inside to lift the arms individually with the pressure line T’d to both?
My only previous experience was 60 years ago on a D15 with factory three point and modified hydraulics. If I get it , probably will have more questions on the hydraulics operation. Three horizontal spool valves levers to the left of the seat plus the two levers near the steering wheel. Used to the Traction control and up and down near the steering wheel. The ones to the left of the seat are also labeled traction control. I would post a picture, but quite sure how to do that.
Thank you for any information.
Edited by Dlesh - 01 Aug 2021 at 12:59pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 1:08pm |
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The lift arms are splined each to their own (left and right) lift shaft. Each lift shaft fit into the lift cylinder crank, which is inside the lift arm housing. All the splines are in "time". There is only one lift cylinder. The lift shafts fit into the lift cylinder crank and have a hole drilled in them for a roll pin to retain them and they are in "time". Either you have a twisted lift shaft, or someone has one of the external lift arms placed out of time on its lift shaft. No way to get them out of time on the inside and still install the retaining roll pin.
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 1:32pm |
what the Doc says
However, I don't quite get how one could be all the way up and the other all the way down.
How could there be much rotational travel available?
Someone may have purposely changed the orientation from side-to-side, but why?
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Dlesh
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 5:12pm |
Thank you for that explanation. I think I can visualize that pretty easily. I also read somewhere, that getting the lift arms off on the older models is not really possible without the whole housing coming off and presses. Deepens the mystery.
How do I post pictures? The lift arms are attached to a third party three point setup and those links make it look even more lopsided.
Edited by Dlesh - 01 Aug 2021 at 5:16pm
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Dlesh
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 5:19pm |
 Gatz in NE wrote:
what the Doc says
However, I don't quite get how one could be all the way up and the other all the way down.
How could there be much rotational travel available?
Someone may have purposely changed the orientation from side-to-side, but why?
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I don’t know either unless something is broke inside. I have heard the arms are difficult to remove, and reinstall without a press. So reindexing doesn’t sound likely. I have not seen the tractor in operation yet. Don’t want to buy something that takes heavy lifting repair right out of the chute.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 5:55pm |
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Getting an old one off isn't bad if you simply use a cutting disc and make a couple of cuts to release the shrink fit and then maybe some torch heat and a big hammer. A salvage yard should be able to sell you one already removed or one still attached to a lift shaft and then you place it in a press and use lots of pressure and some heat (not red !!!) to get it to release. Reheat to install on your tractors lift shaft in chassis.
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 6:12pm |
Were they all shrink fit, Doc? I seem to recall some that just barely slid off with a little help and of course removing the paint.
Once the large snap-ring is removed, you could try using a BFH to persuade the arm to move out and off.
Doug, did you ask the seller why the arms are not aligned? If he doesn't know, it would be anyone's guess as to which one is correct if you don't have another D17 to check the angle in the up position. Maybe Doc knows what that is (?)
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 6:33pm |
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Probably not a shrink fit when new. A light press fit I'd imagine, BUT after 60 or 70 years of rust...………..
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 6:35pm |
As for posting pics; assuming they're on your PC.
When you start/Create a New Topic (or even reply to one) the window that shows up has a row of icons on the top. Click on either the one that has a TREE on it or the one to the left of the TREE (can't tell what that is supposed to be)
Then you can UPLOAD your picture by clicking on the Browse button and select it on your PC. The file name will be shown next to the Browse button. Then click UPLOAD, and click OK (first time I tried uploading a file, I sat & waited for the longest time before it dawned on me to click OK) There should be a preview shown to the right of what you just uploaded.
If you want to post pics in future posts, and select the TREE icon, you'll see all the files you've uploaded.
Note that in order to delete any files from those uploaded, you have to go to the Member Control Panel and then File Manager to access them.
Another side note....... Copying and Pasting pictures from somewhere else doesn't work on this forum.
Edited by Gatz in NE - 01 Aug 2021 at 6:39pm
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Dlesh
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 8:05pm |
Gatz in NE wrote:
Were they all shrink fit, Doc? I seem to recall some that just barely slid off with a little help and of course removing the paint.
Once the large snap-ring is removed, you could try using a BFH to persuade the arm to move out and off.
Doug, did you ask the seller why the arms are not aligned? If he doesn't know, it would be anyone's guess as to which one is correct if you don't have another D17 to check the angle in the up position. Maybe Doc knows what that is (?)
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It is at an equipment dealer, thought they would be open on Sat, but weren’t. So that is tomorrow’s project to ask questions. If I get a picture uploaded, I think the one on the right is probably close to correct. But the left one looks about right for full down.
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Dlesh
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 9:08pm |
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MACK
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 9:24pm |
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I have saw shaft twist off on WD, but never on D17. Looks like someone got one off some how and put back on out of time. MACK
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 9:51pm |
If the lift arms are now in the UP position, the one on the left isn't in full-down position yet, but will get there long before the right one, which appears to be about full up.
Maybe the PO for some reason wanted the lift arm kept at a greater distance (than necessary) so as not chance hitting the valve stack.
IDK; weird setup Hard to tell without a real close look just how many spline count they differ. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
You can use that as a bargaining chip, as in "what the heck am I supposed to mount on that ??" Then remedy the situation if you buy it.
Edited by Gatz in NE - 01 Aug 2021 at 9:52pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Aug 2021 at 11:24pm |
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Left needs to go down 3 to 4 inches more for fully down. Right needs to go up 4 to 6 inches more for full up.
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BrianC
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:11am |
You can look at AGCO's online parts book to see how it is internally constructed.
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Stan R
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:12am |
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Left has no paint- sign of being torched off and re-installed?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 6:34am |
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That hydraulic valve stack is AC factory option, so the left lift arm, when fully raised will come close to it, but not hit it.
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WF owner
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 7:16am |
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If it was my tractor, I, personally, would look for a used housing with rockshaft and lift arms and just change it out. I can't imagine there is much demand for them and that they would be very expensive.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 8:11am |
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This is off topic, but that tractor has added on hydraulic valves on the left of the seat. That's cool and likely pretty rare. I'd like to have that valve!
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Ky.Allis
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 1:06pm |
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The burnt look on the left lift arm is more than likely oil from the hyd. valve.
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 3:18pm |
Allis dave wrote:
This is off topic, but that tractor has added on hydraulic valves on the left of the seat. That's cool and likely pretty rare. I'd like to have that valve! |
That's factory or dealer installed optional valve. The operators manual for the Series III show it.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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wjohn
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 8:34pm |
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Disclaimer: I don't know much about D-17s, and the hoses are somewhat in the way. Is that left side lift arm on upside down or am I just seeing things?
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Allis dave
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 8:44pm |
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My Series III manual shows it too, but this is the first time I've seen an actual picture of one.
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MACK
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Posted: 02 Aug 2021 at 9:12pm |
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Right side is out too far. I think some one had it apart, put one side back in one spline off without role pin. MACK
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 03 Aug 2021 at 5:01am |
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Has to be a million used housings in salvage yards with little value. Who would ever need one?
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