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modirt 
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 Topic: D15 II Spark Plugs?
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 2:22pm |
What are good modern era numbers for replacement spark plugs for the D15 II, with 160 motor.
Book calls for AC C45, Champion J-7 or Autolite A-5.
All seem to be obsolete numbers.
Now has Autolite 303. But not sure if that is right.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 2:40pm |
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Series 2 might be different but I run Autolite 295 in my 1961 D 15 . HTH
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 2:46pm |
As per shop manual, SN 9001 and down (Series I) and smaller engine has two different plug options.....one for heavy loads, one for light or med.
Plugs listed for Series II (9001 and up) and 160 engine are different than either option listed for Series I.....but no load range specs. Series II has only the one set listed vs. two.
And still find it odd that for Series II, specs and data in the shop manual is only 1 paragraph or so vs. nearly 2 pages of specs for Series I. Downright scarce.....which leaves us to guess.....which is a bit scary as clearly they are not the same.
Edited by modirt - 25 Jan 2021 at 2:51pm
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ACinSC
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 2:54pm |
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Pretty sure I got my plugs from Steve . Maybe he'll chime in . I'm sure he knows .
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Alvin M
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 3:15pm |
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I use Autolite Ap85 if it uses some then I use Ap86
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 3:52pm |
And while we are at it, is there a good off the shelf replacement for points and condenser at normal auto parts stores like NAPA? Or do those need to come from AGCO?
Or maybe DJ's?
The fact that the shop manual differentiated between Series I and II on plugs and these kits do not makes me nervous.
And that kit puts me back to Autolite 303's.
Edited by modirt - 25 Jan 2021 at 4:00pm
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ac45dave
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 4:15pm |
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Standard Blue Streak cond Dr60; points DR2227p One nice feature of the Blue streak points is they have a built in cam oiler, no need for cam grease.Echlin #s cap rr145 , rotor rr301, points cs763, condensor rr174 These are the only distributor parts I recomend. Anything else will most likely be china junk.Also avoid the Sparex brand that napa carries, most of that is china also. If you look at DJs dist tune up kit, they have a riley tractor parts number which is china. Their Dist tune up kit ACR1932 is a china riley. they just added AC on the riley number R1932.Tried Riley one time,waste of time, then went on the hunt on line to find NOS Delco points. Gotem on the shelf now.
Edited by ac45dave - 25 Jan 2021 at 6:09pm
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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ac45dave
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 4:33pm |
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As far as plugs, 295 or 303 will be fine either way. Depends if you want resistor plugs or not.I lean towards non resistor as that is what they left the plant with back in the day. Agco book lists the same ac plug # for early and late production D15, so I wouldn't sweat the diff between series I or series II.
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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Alvin M
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 4:43pm |
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Agco list diff plugs for tractor after s# 9001 that is series II Agco parts book under d15 page 128 #8
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ac45dave
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 5:56pm |
 Alvin M wrote:
Agco list diff plugs for tractor after s# 9001 that is series II Agco parts book under d15 page 128 #8 |
Book calls for the same plug for before TR S/N 9001 and EFF TR S/N 9001 for the AC plug.Copied and pasted from page 128.They have autolite and champion and lp mixed in under item 8.I had to look at it a couple times my self. 70224990 | 4 | PLUG, SPARK, A-C (FOR GASOLINE) (EFF. TR. S/N 9001) |
70224990 | 4 | PLUG, SPARK, A-C (FOR GASOLINE) (PRIOR TRACTOR S/N 9001) |
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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ac45dave
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 6:24pm |
Here's a link to an ebay listing for NOS usa made Autolite 295s. Not a bad price either. Autolites are now made in china and I've heard some not so good things about them.If I was looking for plugs this is what I would go with. http://www.ebay.com/itm/224167768525
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 6:49pm |
If AL 295's are what I'm looking for, I may have one more place to check. Tractor is currently sitting inside former Allis dealers old shop and 100 feet from some bins still stocked with a few NOS plugs. Will have to double check to see if there are any of these left.
So the 295 is a non-resistor and 303 is resistor and otherwise same?
As to the Blue Streak or Echlin stuff, one as good as the other? Echlin being NAPA?
I enjoy an occasional bowl of hot and sour soup and an eggroll, but that is about as much support as I care to give to China these days.
As for the new autolites, existing 303 plugs were installed by me just a couple years ago. One has already gone bad.......probably no more than 100 hours on it.
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PaulB
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 6:52pm |
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NGK B6 or BR6 (resistor) would last much longer than any Autolite plug
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 8:03pm |
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Blue Streak is Standard Motor Products premier brand. Echlin has been a SMP company for a few years now and is the premier line for NAPA. Both are high quality products, in my opinion.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 10:04pm |
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Looks like AC47, Autolight A-9 and Champion J-11 will also work.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 6:57am |
The 295 Autolite is a little warmer heat range than the 303's. With Autolite plugs, the last digit is the heat range. In worn engines, or engines that have some time on them, I usually suggest using the 295's. In newer rebuilt engines, sometimes the cooler plug (303) works well. I've used both the Autolite and NGK's in my Tractors as a performance comparison, and I don't think one is better than the other. To me, they're both good plugs and both work well under light loads as well as heavy loads. We carry both types of plugs in stock along with the Blue Streak tune up parts.. HTH Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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GSTROM99
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 7:08am |
Jim.ME wrote:
Blue Streak is Standard Motor Products premier brand. Echlin has been a SMP company for a few years now and is the premier line for NAPA. Both are high quality products, in my opinion. |
I just bought an Echlin branded relay for my Suburban at NAPA. It is Made in China. Seems to be okay though.
All of the above replies are noting the D17 manuals... The OP said his D17 has a 160 motor. Does this advice apply, for that motor?
Edited by GSTROM99 - 26 Jan 2021 at 7:10am
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Gary
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 7:56am |
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D-15 Ser II 160 cu.in. , not D-17
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modirt
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 10:26am |
Humor me for a bit......keep in mind, I'm not a mechanic. I've got a few wrenches and
if you hand me a set of plugs, I can gap em and install em.......but ask
me to explain the difference between a J7 plug and J8 plug....that is where the
wheels fall off.
So here are the specs from my D15 shop manual. First for the Series 1.....second for the series 2 with 160 engine......seems to me what I ought to be looking for is a replacement plug that matches the thread size and reach, wrench size and lastly heat range. This is where the confusion starts........
So using these specs as benchmarks, and sticking with Champion plugs to be consistent, it seems the plug for heavy loads in the the S1 was a J8. For light to medium loads, a J11. That suggests to me the smaller the number the hotter the plug? So when you get to the S2, and they call for a J7, that ought to be hotter still?
So if an Autolite 295 is a hotter plug than a 303, is that what the S2 ought to be using?
Having said that, I called my local NAPA to inquire what they showed and to check availability, and NAPA's computer said the direct replacement for a Champion J7 and an Autolite A-5, was now an Autolite 303 for both.
Leaves a guy confused and scratching his head.
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modirt
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 10:36am |
And while we are at it, the terms "heat range" and "hotter" don't mean anything to me.
In what way are they hotter? How is this difference expressed if you wanted to measure it?
Spark intensity as measured by voltage?
It also occurs to me my thought process is reversed. Could be a tractor running under a heavy load is running hot to begin with, so needs a less intense spark to ignite the fuel vs. same engine under a light load. If so, got my numbers backwards. J7 being a cooler plug than J8, and J8 cooler than J11, etc.
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ac45dave
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 11:04am |
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PM sent,call me.
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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GSTROM99
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 11:16am |
Gary wrote:
D-15 Ser II 160 cu.in. , not D-17 |
Oops. My bad. Nevermind...  |
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RMD
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 11:39am |
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Where do Autolite 306 plugs fit in this picture? After some research, that's what I ended up putting in my Series II D-12, although I'm a little fuzzy on why I came to that choice at this point.
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 12:23pm |
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I’ll try to explain for you. Hotter plug stays physically hotter. If you look at hot and cold plug you will see that the hotter plug is deeper inside. Heat has to travel farther to reach the metal part and threads to dissipate. Colder plug is shallower inside - heat doesn’t travel as far and dissipates quicker. On a plug that is only one range colder this may be hard to see. Measure it with a gauge. So what plug to use? Anything on that chart you are showing is fine. None of them are extreme one way or another! If you are going to pull 3 furrows all day at wide open throttle then use the coldest one. If you have an oil burner use the hottest one to keep the oil burned off. If motor is in good shape and just getting used a bit as most of these are now any one will do. If in doubt use the midrange ones!
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 12:37pm |
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Each company has different numbering system so do some research. On the a-c delco plugs higher number is hotter plug. Too hot a plug can melt a piston but as I said there is nothing extreme showing there. You can trust your Allis engineers. Keep in mind these are low compression and low rpm motors. So ac47-hot. Ac45 colder. AC44 or 43 coldest. 😀
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Alberta Phil
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 12:43pm |
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Just to throw another wrench into the mix, today's gas is a lot different from when those specs were issued. Probably burns quite a bit different from the gas of 40 years ago!!
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Hubert (Ga)engine7
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 1:13pm |
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Don't remember which plugs I have in my D15 II but going to a Flamethrower coil helped more than anything. I put a Pertronix ignition system in it but it crapped out within a few months while I was in the middle of bush hogging so I went back with a good set of points and comdensor and it has been running great.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 4:20pm |
You might have had a set of solid core wires on your Tractor Herbert which took the Electronic module out. Hence the E.I. failure. Not all mfrs rate their plugs the same way. There's a lot involved as far as reach, size, resistor, non resistor, heat range, and construction. Champions aren't what they used to be. Same with our fuel as Phil mentioned. Definitely not blended like 40+ years ago for sure. Some folks have good luck with Champions. Most don't. They foul so darn easy.... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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garden_guy
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 4:55pm |
RMD wrote:
Where do Autolite 306 plugs fit in this picture? After some research, that's what I ended up putting in my Series II D-12, although I'm a little fuzzy on why I came to that choice at this point. |
According to this chart I found on autolite's website, a 306 plug is basically the resistor version at the same heat range as the non-resistor 295.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7
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Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 6:59pm |
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Steve, I installed a new set of graphite core wires along with the recommended coil when I installed the EI unit.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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