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Luke114 
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Joined: 27 Aug 2019
Location: Washington
Points: 109
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 Topic: B grinding starter
Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 10:54am |
Getting close to having 2/3 of the tractor done. Wiring yet to do, and some front tires on order. Paint definitely needs some touch up. The starter grinds instead of engaging the flywheel about half the time. The ring gear has some wear, but its not awful. Is there any other starter inspections/adjustments I should look at before starting to replace parts?
The original push button contactor on the starter was shot, so I added a remote start solenoid, and running on 12 volt.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4952
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Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 2:32pm |
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Replace your ring gear and have the starter rebuilt as a 12volt unit. This slows down the RPM of the starter and will not tear up the ring gear. Yea everybody, there are hundreds people that have 6 volt starters running on 12 volt for years without a problem, however this is the other side of the coin. Doing the job right will make it last your lifetime.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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C in Concord
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Joined: 26 Sep 2019
Location: Concord, WI
Points: 109
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Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 10:16pm |
At a minimum, convert starter to 12v (if it isn't already) and plan on replacing the bendix. Amazing what a new bendix can do.
Ben
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Leave things better than you found them.
1941 Model C (restored 2020)
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11926
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Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 11:14pm |
Paul is right on the money. Running 12V's through 6V field coils don't cut it. Makes the Starter motor violent. Cracked nose cones, worn out ring gears, and bent drives are just a few of the complications of that situation. I completely rebuild these Starter motors including a rewound Armature if interested. I also add a HD Starter relay so the unit gets full power and has a nice transistion to the flywheel ring gear. Eliminates the old rod n' switch issue also. Installing a key crank start Ignition switch takes that Model B out of the 40's and puts it in the 60's. If you need a wiring system, I build them to. Visit our website. There's lots of information on 12V conversions and the do's and don'ts.
Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24406
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Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 5:55am |
If you're going to replace the chewed ringgear or 'remove,rotate 60*,reattach', you should l replace the pilot bushing while the tractor's split ! And the throwout bearing.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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LeonR2013
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Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3500
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Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 6:56pm |
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Take the flywheel off, heat the ring gear and it swells enough to flip right off. Turn it over and put back on. Now you're looking at fresh gears. Then with a 1/16" grind wheel on a die grinder cut the bevel on the teeth to the same angle as before only on the back side. This will allow you to run the same flywheel gear for thousands of hours more, and is not difficult at all to do. Works for me. Leon
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Dick L
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
Points: 5087
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 5:49am |
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What Leon said! Done that many times only I just used a 4 1/2" angle grinder and knocked the sharp edge off at the same as or as close as the original angle.
Edited by Dick L - 07 Oct 2020 at 5:50am
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 5:53am |
sigh, on my D-14 you can't reverse the ringgear.. there's a cast 'lip' on it....so either new from India via AGCO or rotate 40-60* and reattatch.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4898
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 5:57am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
sigh, on my D-14 you can't reverse the ringgear.. there's a cast 'lip' on it....so either new from India via AGCO or rotate 40-60* and reattatch.
Jay
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If you were to do that, why wouldn't you turn it 45 degrees, which is halfway between the four TDC (compression) spots?
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11926
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 6:09am |
I don't know, to me if I did that much work in splitting the Tractor to do some upgrades, I would install a new ring gear not flip the old one around. Just seems to be more logical to me going through the motions to do the job. Do it right and forgetaboutit.... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Luke114
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Joined: 27 Aug 2019
Location: Washington
Points: 109
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 10:22am |
Thanks for the input, guys. Last night I pulled the starter out of the C and tried it in the B. Huge improvement, no grinding and sounds good. Hadn't really noticed how bad the starter pinion gear looked until comparing it to one that wasn't worn out. The C is still a salvage project and I hate robbing more parts, but looks like this will get me by for now. Also built a hand crank last night and started it a few times that way...just in case.
The flywheel ring gear is still not in great shape, but I think the majority of the problem was the pinion. Thanks for the tip on flipping or rotating. I didn't realize that was an option.
Point taken on the 12 volt conversion at the starter. I suspect that is the correct way to go, but it will have to go on the wish list for now. I converted to 12 volt because the generator needed a complete rewind and the mini Desno alternator was cheap and easy, along with the idea of eventually getting some LED lights.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 07 Oct 2020 at 2:45pm |
Steve in NJ wrote:
I don't know, to me if I did that much work in splitting the Tractor to do some upgrades, I would install a new ring gear not flip the old one around. Just seems to be more logical to me going through the motions to do the job. Do it right and forgetaboutit....Steve@B&B |
Some people are just CHEAP 
Just remember that putting another starter pinion gear up next to a worn ring gear will ruin that starter pinion in time. Don't wait too long to fix things right or you'll have 2 starters with bad gears.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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