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LeakyBoot 
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Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri
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 Topic: 200 stopped running in the field today.
Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 9:24pm |
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2 days ago I noticed a slight change in rpm while running the round baler. Up and down just a bit now and then. Maybe 150 rpm change. Never did that before. Yesterday it was worse, going from 1600 to 1900 with throttle set at about 1750 rpm. If you stopped moving it ran pretty smooth. Today, more of the same . Reached out the back window and checked the fuel cap. No change from that. No vacuum buildup. While stopped, run the rpm up to 2000 then closed back to idle and it died for the first time. No restart. Got new filter this AM but was sold one proper one and one that does not fit. Will change those tomorrow and also check for good flow from tank. Any experience on this issue? Pump problem? Hope not. Thanks. LB
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wekracer
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Tebbetts, MO
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Posted: 14 Jul 2020 at 9:52pm |
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My guess is the expansion ring came apart and plugged the return line. Will probably need pump rebuild. It’s a very common issue.
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Charlie175
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Shenandoah, VA
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 5:47am |
Check the easy stuff first. Change Filters Fuel flow to pump OK? |
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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MACK
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 6:23am |
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No, open timing window first to see if it runs then. MACK
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plummerscarin
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Joined: 22 Jun 2015
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 7:15am |
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In my case the water separator filter was the problem. It is located behind the panel on the right side and difficult to get to and is different # than fuel filter.
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injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 7:52am |
 MACK wrote:
No, open timing window first to see if it runs then. MACK |
Then to finish out the season, take the top fitting out of pump, and remove the ball and springs and clean out all the black particles plugging it. Grind on end of the fitting where the washer retains the ball, then it will pry out. This is a very common problem with the DB pumps. If it were a supply to the pump issue, you'd have to bleed it and prime it back up before it starts. The broken flex ring in the pump issue, builds excessive internal housing pressure, which causes it to lose power and eventually die. Will restart without priming after sitting for a 1/2 hour or so. It will get worse and worse until it will only idle. Removing the glass ball is just a temporary fix to get by until you can get the pump off and sent in for proper rebuild.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Lynn Marshall
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Location: Dana, Iowa
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 8:13am |
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The fuel shutoff tee on the right hand side under the tank has a habit of getting restricted and not giving proper fuel flow. Check it and change filters.
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LeakyBoot
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Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 8:57am |
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Thanks for all the replies. Went down where the tractor is just awhile ago. First, I removed the fitting in top of pump with the glass ball. It was clean and could blow thru it. Then I loosed the fuel line at the pump coming from the filter and worked the hand pump. Lots of fuel there. Tried to start and fired right up. I moved it around and unhitched the disc mower. I am going to change out filters today and blow out the tank cap and check for good flow from tank. Then next time it starts acting up going straight to the return fitting and remove it to see what I can see. Yesterday, I ran fine for about 3 minutes then slowly went down hill. We will see if that happens again. Is there anywhere the return line can plug except at the glass ball fitting? Thanks!!
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Charlie175
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Shenandoah, VA
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 9:10am |
Our Case dozer return line was clogged when we got, it would die after a few minutes. Blew it out and ran great since then.
I blew it back to the tank, not toward the pump!
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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bradley6874
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Joined: 05 Sep 2010
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 9:49am |
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Put a straiht screwdrive on the tractor put her to work when she screws up loosen the window like mack said let the presure off if she strts back up do what ed said. You got two of the best telling you what to do LISTEN to them
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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mruhlig77
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Location: central Indiana
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 10:12am |
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Be sure the fuel cap is ok...needs to be cleaned of our modern additives that corode or plug it up...I use solvent until it seems to be free inside..Mark
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LeakyBoot
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 10:28am |
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Thumbs up. Thanks.
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FREEDGUY
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
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Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 6:55pm |
injpumpEd wrote:
MACK wrote:
No, open timing window first to see if it runs then. MACK |
Then to finish out the season, take the top fitting out of pump, and remove the ball and springs and clean out all the black particles plugging it. Grind on end of the fitting where the washer retains the ball, then it will pry out. This is a very common problem with the DB pumps. If it were a supply to the pump issue, you'd have to bleed it and prime it back up before it starts. The broken flex ring in the pump issue, builds excessive internal housing pressure, which causes it to lose power and eventually die. Will restart without priming after sitting for a 1/2 hour or so. It will get worse and worse until it will only idle. Removing the glass ball is just a temporary fix to get by until you can get the pump off and sent in for proper rebuild. |
When/if the glass ball/springs are removed for the temporary fix, do they need replaced after the pump rebuild ??
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injpumpEd
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Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 8:02am |
FREEDGUY wrote:
injpumpEd wrote:
MACK wrote:
No, open timing window first to see if it runs then. MACK |
Then to finish out the season, take the top fitting out of pump, and remove the ball and springs and clean out all the black particles plugging it. Grind on end of the fitting where the washer retains the ball, then it will pry out. This is a very common problem with the DB pumps. If it were a supply to the pump issue, you'd have to bleed it and prime it back up before it starts. The broken flex ring in the pump issue, builds excessive internal housing pressure, which causes it to lose power and eventually die. Will restart without priming after sitting for a 1/2 hour or so. It will get worse and worse until it will only idle. Removing the glass ball is just a temporary fix to get by until you can get the pump off and sent in for proper rebuild. |
When/if the glass ball/springs are removed for the temporary fix, do they need replaced after the pump rebuild ??
It gets replaced when properly rebuilt. If it's plugged up, it will cause issues after rebuild, so either way it'll get replaced in my shop, and most first rate others too. So it's going to be replaced anyway, may as well sacrifice it. |
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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CrestonM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 11:49am |
MACK wrote:
No, open timing window first to see if it runs then. MACK |
I have very little experience around diesels...what does opening the timing window do?
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SteveM C/IL
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Location: Shelbyville IL
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 12:01pm |
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Pressure build up in hsg because return fitting plugged with failing elastomer ring...loosen timing window relieves pressure...same as removing spring/ball...for testing....I don't know what the pressure build does but it don't work
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 12:44pm |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
Pressure build up in hsg because return fitting plugged with failing elastomer ring...loosen timing window relieves pressure...same as removing spring/ball...for testing....I don't know what the pressure build does but it don't work |
What happens in a Roosa pump when the return is plugged, is the housing pressure (normally 2-5 psi) gets up as high as internal transfer pressure(typically around 75 psi) the pumping plungers no longer have a pressure differential, so if pressures on both sides of plungers are nearly equal, they simply quit moving, tractor loses power and dies. Once the housing pressure bleeds off, it'll restart as if nothing was wrong. The also spit and sputter if equipped with timing advance, because the same thing happen to the power side advance piston, no difference in pressure, it moves back to base timing since it's spring loaded. Usually the pumps start leaking all over too, those seals aren't capable of holding 75 psi, made for 5.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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LeakyBoot
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Location: Missouri
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 3:35pm |
Thanks for all the comments and advise. Here is what I did. Changed both filters and while they were off I used a rubber tip blow gun to blow line back toward tank. Also removed the line from tank to injector pump and blew on it too. Blew some air in fuel cap vent, by mouth. Tasted diesel rest of day... Don't know if they were plugged but gave them some air just in case. Primed and started fine.
Today, started right up, running ok. Took tools to loosen the plate and also to remove the top fitting at first sign of trouble. Baled at 1750 rpm for 2 hours with out a hiccup. Ran great. LB
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 3:44pm |
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200's are somewhat known for getting the outlet valve at the tank plugged with debris. This is located at the right rear corner of the fuel tank/platform area. The trouble with blowing backwards into the tank, is the crap that may have been in the outlet valve is now floating around in the tank and may come back to haunt you someday.
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allisbred
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 5:03pm |
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They will work for awhile if not under very heavy load. I also think they like to fail in hot weather over cold weather(just my opinion)Pulling a disc harrow may work it a little harder. Ours took about a year to notice any rubber pc’s coming out the pump window. I was convinced it was the tank until I saw those small pc’s. Then it needed rebuilt. Listen to what these guys tell you as several know AC’s very well.
Edited by allisbred - 16 Jul 2020 at 5:04pm
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calico190xt68
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Posted: 16 Jul 2020 at 10:04pm |
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I recently had problems with my 190xt dying. Pump had been rebuilt by Ed 2 years ago so didn't think it was a pump problem. I felt it was running out of fuel. I pumped primer and it would start and run then die. I had drained and cleaned my fuel tank and replaced my sediment bowls 2 years ago. Finally it wouldn't start at all. I replaced fuel filter and bought primer kit from Ed. Didn't start. I removed both of my sediment bowls and there was major gunk blocking inlet. I cleaned and reinstalled. Ran for an hour and died again. Deinstalled sediment bowls and again gunk blocking inlet. I drained fuel tank and reinstalled sediment bowls and now running good. By the way, I primarily use the tractor for hay and the gunk looked like hay but also had some water in bowl which seemed to cause it to turn into jelly. I just bought a 500 gal fuel tank to stop using 5 gallon jugs in field. My guess is they caused hay and water to enter tank. I also saw what looked like paint chips in sediment bowl. I was shocked at how dirty things got after I cleaned tank 2 years ago. Hopefully you are done with it but you if tank gunk did it, you may need to clean sediment bowls again. Hope it continues running like a top. I am happy to have a primer that doesn't spray fuel any longer.
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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