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bobkyllo 
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 Topic: Revisiting the f150
Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 9:10pm |
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So as you guys remember my customer has a 2006 f150. It stalled on them, I replaced the fuel pump control module. They also had me put in the fuel pressure sensor.
Well it has been running and running well up until 2 days ago. It died on them, so I pushed it in my shop and went to work. I took your guys suggestion and unplugged the egr valve and that didn't help.
So next I got access to the fuel pump. I can't hear it buzzing. So I unplugged the connector. The two little wires are for the fuel guage they tested fine as they should. The two bigger wires were next. I couldn't get them to light a test light at all. I got my power probe and it showed 12.5 volts. But I still wasn't happy. So I got a volt meter. The pink wire had 12 volts the black wire had nothing as it should. Then I switched to continuity test with the buzzer. I could only get the ground wire to buzz when I'd initial turn the key on and it would buzz for maybe 6 seconds maybe a bit longer. That would me the PCM is grinding for a bit. That told me fuel pump is bad.
New fuel pump tonight and same crap, crank no start. Once in a while a sputter
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 9:14pm |
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I should also mention I remember Ford used an inertia switch for the fuel pump. I found that on the passenger side foot well. I reached in and pushed the button and the pickup come alive.
I told Dad who's been helping to shut it off. Then we tried starting it again. Now it won't start again.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 9:33pm |
The fuel pump does not run constant... When you turn on the KEY the pump runs for 3 seconds and builds up pressure in the fuel rail, then shuts off...... Once the truck is RUNNING, the pump will get voltage and run more constant... The pressure REGULATOR you replaced controls how often the pump must run, when the Engine is running.
Listening for the pump to run for 3 seconds is the first test.... checking voltage as you did should eliminate the power circuit ........ can you hear the pump RUN when you turn the key to ON... not START ?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 9:39pm |
older trucks had a spud on the fuel rail to measure pressure.. Think that was eliminated by 2004.. You can take the line loose at fuel filter under the cab ( drivers seat area) and turn the key to ON ( not start) and see that you have flow...
If so, you probably have an electrical problem with the fuel injector circuit... Pushing the INERTIA button may reset the computer so it will start ONCE ... ??
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 12:59am |
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I replaced the fuel pressure sensor not the fuel regulator.
But no I can not hear the fuel pump energize. I'm sure if I had my ear back at the pump that last time Dad and I tried it and it did start I would have heard it buzz seeing as it started. I understand that it will only run for 3 seconds with just turning on the key.
What's stumped me is I have power going to the pump. To check my ground side I took my multi meter set on continuity with the beep feature. I had one test lead in the ground wire and the other test lead grounded to the pickup. I had Dad turn the ignition on and the meter beeped for about 3 seconds. Knowing my data is only good if you can repeat it successfully I did just that. I got the same results time and time again. I probably tried it another 4 times, every time getting the same results.
Knowing that I have continuity in that circut would tell me I have a fully functioning circuit all the way to the computer and that the computer is in deed controlling the fuel pump.
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 1:03am |
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Steve I should have addressed your idea of testing for flow. I did check for fuel pressure. I checked for fuel flow right at the pump. I unhooked the line right off the top of the fuel pump.
To no surprise I have zero pressure. And I figured I'd see that because I can't get the pump to activate. But if you read my last post I am besides my self as to why I can't at least get the pump to energize.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 6:51am |
re: .... I had one test lead in the ground wire and the other test lead grounded
to the pickup. I had Dad turn the ignition on and the meter beeped for
about 3 seconds.
If I'm reading this the way I think , then I see this as a bad ground wire. The meter SHOULD be beeping 24/7 . Connecting the meter to any two points on the ground wire ,it should beep. If you disconnect the connector, attach probe to the 'black wire' pin , the other probe to frame, meter should beep 24/7. Be sure to slowly wiggle the wire. If it's busted, meter will stop beeping.
kinda hard to diagnose without being there, but not gas in rail = no power to pump
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mhankins
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:20am |
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Have you tried disconnecting the pump wires,and putting 12 volts to the pump?
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Red Bank
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:32am |
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Is the power constant to the fuel pump and the PCM sends ground signal to run fuel pump?
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:46am |
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It's a new pump. Yes the pump does run because I did get the pickup to start last night after installing the new pump. But I only got it to start once. The way I got it to start was by pressing the inertia switch that Ford uses.
The PCM grounds to circuit and that's why I only get the 3 seconds of tone from my multi meter.
If I was probed into that wire when it starts it should be constant
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 8:16am |
bob........... your last post is correct... PCM controls the ground...
It bothers me that you have power, but you dont have flow out of the pump ???
If the pump was flowing, i would suspect the PCM controlling the injectors, but with NO FLOW , i would concentrate on that area.
When you say fuel pressure SENSOR, what sensor are you talking about... There is a FPM ( fuel pressure module) that controls the pressure and tells the pump when to run.. It is in front of the rear axle, drivers side, lower area of the frame.
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mhankins
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 9:17am |
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I saw where the fuel pump module had problems with rusting out.
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 11:23am |
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Steve, there is a 3 wire sensor right on the fuel rail. It's also vacuum operated.
I have replaced the fuel pump driver. Your correct it is above the spare tire roughly. That has been a known cause. It was corroded and replaced. After replacing the fuel pump driver it kept starting for about 3 to 4 days.
But now I have nothing at all. No real sputter. No real effort to start. Every once in a while it'll hit just a bit.
With the line off the fuel pump and cycling the key I have no fuel coming out. But I've got power. I've also got continuity on the ground so for those 3 seconds
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john(MI)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 12:11pm |
Won't it only pump to keep a specific amount of pressure to the injectors? It should throw a code if there is a problem, if it's not maybe you need to take the module to a dealer and have it flashed. I think you need to take the VIN as well.
A friend had a problem with fuel, it ended up being one of the lines going to the tank.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 5:43pm |
im about deaf and i can hear the fuel pump cycle on for 3 seconds when you turn on the key... ( ON, not START).... If you have power and the pump dont start, that kind of narrows down a problem with the pump ???
If you were not getting power, i would suggest checking the FMP electrical plug again, since it was just worked on a few days ago...... BUT, if you have POWER and the pump is not cycling ....... ???
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 5:45pm |
-----With the line off the fuel pump and cycling the key I have no fuel coming out. But I've got power. I've also got continuity on the ground so for those 3 seconds
The PUMP should cycle on for 3 seconds and build up 40 PSI in the fuel rail... your pump is not working.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Mar 2020 at 5:46pm
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 6:08pm |
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Sounds like new pump is fried too, was it OEM Motorcraft? Maybe some weird power spike or poor ground issue frying the pumps?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:36pm |
Im not an expert on the system, and there are several "parts" to the system that have to all work together.......... but if i have 12+ volts on the hot wire and the Ground wire is grounded ...i dont see how the pump can not run ? Fuse, FPM , inertia switch dont seem to be related if you have power and ground ? ......... maybe im missing something, but dont see it.
now there are more wires involved.. There is a FLOAT inside the tank that sends a signal to the gas gauge.... i would assume it has its OWN 12v wire ?? Your on the RIGHT wires ?
Again, can you hear the pump run ?
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Mar 2020 at 7:38pm
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 7:46pm |
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I've tested both sets of wires. There is a considerable size difference and yes I found the wire color. I'm testing the right wires.
As far as I can tell the only thing down stream from the pump so to speak would be the PCM which is responsible for grounding the circuit. I might need more load on the circuit then what the multi meter puts out
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 8:52pm |
thats a good idea... maybe your measuring GROUND... but not really getting enough to run the pump ? Maybe grounding the wire from the pump directly to the frame for a "test" ??
Double check that elect plug on the FP Module also.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Mar 2020 at 8:54pm
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desertjoe
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Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 3:48am |
Whew,,Bob,,,my head is spinning and I feel for you and your daddy,,,,, I went thru one of them on a Ranger a while back and after dang near overhauling the whole friggin engine compartment,,,I finally found where one of the main ground wires right at the battery was disconnected and would touch every so often and it start,,,I sold that sob soon as i could,,,,, 
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 9:04am |
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I'm with Mike Hankins, "Have you tried disconnecting the pump wires, and putting 12 volts to the pump?".
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:20am |
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Wire an 1157 bulb in place of the pump and test. It should come on and stay on as NO pressure in fuel rail, so computer should keep powering the 'fuel pump' circuit ?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 4:32pm |
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The "computer" tells the pump to start and run for 3 seconds when you turn the key to the ON position... If you go to the START position and the motor starts, then it signals the fuel pressure module to monitor the pressure and run "as needed" to maintain maybe 40 psi..... If the motor DONT START, then the pump see no additional voltage after the initial first 3 seconds... You can cycle the key OFF- then back ON and get another 3 seconds.
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