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Charging system conundrum |
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 6:58am |
OK fellas, what am I missing. Can't seem to get the charging system on my TL12 loader to charge. It uses a WD 45 engine, so same as the tractor, basic wiring system. No lights right now.
Swapped alternator, (GM 3 wire SI alternator). Had it tested before installation. All new wires and idiot light. Heavy charging wire hooked to battery side of solenoid. Terminal 1 runs through a 5 ohm resistor and led idiot light in dash, then to switch. Terminal 2 runs to battery side of solenoid. Switched to smaller pulley on alternator. Like I said, basic system. What am I missing? |
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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What are you basing saying it doesn't charge on? Do you have a voltmeter or ammeter? Does the idiot light stay lit or go out? Have you checked voltage across the battery posts with a voltmeter?
One thought I have is the way you describe wiring it you have bypassed the ammeter and it won't show if it is charging. |
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mhankins
Silver Level Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Location: Arkansas Points: 134 |
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Try hooking just a 12 volt bulb instead of the led. It might not be enough to excite the regulator.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80828 |
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I use a 10 ohm 10 watt resister ........ no idiot light. If the alternator tests GOOD, then your not getting the excitation voltage to kick in right.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80828 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Have that exact diagram downloaded Steve. I went with a 5 ohm resistor to get higher amperage to make sure there was enough load to trigger the alternator. Using Ohm's law, V/R=I, 12/5=2.4 amp versus 12/10=1.2 amp. No ammeter or voltmeter wired into the system as of right now. Using a multimeter only get around 11.5 volts at battery. Idiot light stays on even holding it at full throttle.
Plan to eventually replace the original ammeter in the dash, but need to find a 10 pin aviation connector to replace the factory one that won't come apart so I can take the dash off. So for now just trying get it to run so I can move snow. Don't have a shop to get it inside, so that will have to wait till spring. Plan to rewire the whole machine come next summer. |
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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Use a jumper wire from the battery terminal on the alternator to the #1 terminal and see if it charges. From your description I understand the resistor, idiot lamp, and all the wire between the switch and alternator are all new, is that correct?
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22399 |
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The idiot light staying on says the alternator is not supplying more volts than the battery.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Yes all wires are new.
One question though. If I jump from terminal 1 to the battery stud, there would be no load to trigger the alternator? |
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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BrianC
Orange Level Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Location: New York Points: 1619 |
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You said the idiot light stays on, so i conclude you have an idiot light, led and resistor in series to terminal #1? That's a lot of stuff. As a test use the jumper per Jim. After that, use just the bulb. Those bulbs are about 45 ohms I think. The bulb holder must have two wires, nothing grounded here. Next I would jumper in a test ground wire from battery negative post to alternator body. The assumption is you have good ground. You swapped alternator, changed pulley size. So you have put effort into this. Should work, so maybe a fundamental requirement is lacking-a good ground. |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22399 |
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here's what inside.... oops.. 3 wire below... If the diode trio doesn't supply higher voltage than battery, light stays on.
Edited by jaybmiller - 11 Dec 2019 at 8:05am |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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DonnaS
Bronze Level Joined: 03 Dec 2019 Location: Oswego NY Points: 6 |
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My question is the alternator itsself you said you swapped it and have a 3 plug Delco style, was that was was in it before?, my understanding was always you had to stay with it older 2 plug style?
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Stan IL&TN
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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You can wait until warmer weather to fix the problem, just charge the battery up before use. You should be able to run it for a couple of hours before it starts missing and that will let you know it is time for a recharge.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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bradley6874
Orange Level Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: salisbury md Points: 1344 |
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I am with Donna on this you said three wire Delco alternator. .what’s yours???
Edited by bradley6874 - 11 Dec 2019 at 8:18am |
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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How about posting a photo of the back of your alternator, terminal end, so we can all be sure which alternator we are talking about.
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8269 |
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Folks,
Ok I attempted to follow along a little. I am terrible at electrical stuff. I think we could/ should have a place to go to set up a custom electrical system for some of these orange units? I have done 5 WD series. I ended up doing 4 the same way and the last has a different smaller Alternator which did not need the exciter wire. I use the voltmeter rather than a ammeter, which is always debated. But it works for me. I have also gone to mariner grade key switches and toggles for the lights. Seems better that the NAPA stuff, sorry NAPA! I am still learning and lots of folks on here have helped me just like this! I do like how robust the updated 12 volt systems work. I had one of the WD's set all winter and it fired up immediately in the spring! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 11 Dec 2019 at 10:33am |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Sorry about pic size. All I have is an android phone and android tablet, and haven't found a way to resize. If to big, what works for me is to open it in a new tab or window. Heavy white wire, (which has been replaced since picture was taken) goes to battery side of starter solenoid. Red wire goes to battery side of starter solenoid. Green/yellow wire goes to idiot light. Checked, and have ground from case to engine block. Started with just the light in the circuit. Light stayed on, so added the resistor to increase load due to fact it is a LED, so small load. Was originally a generator (1952ish) but, was changed to an alternator by a previous owner. Thought about just charging battery every time, but would like to be able to add lights, because it is dark before I get home from work to move snow. Edited by truckerfarmer - 11 Dec 2019 at 10:35pm |
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4648 |
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resized
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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Try the temporary connections in this photo and see if it charges. You can just unplug the red/green wire connector and use spade terminals (to replace the connector) to make up the jumpers, you can put test clips on the other end of the wires so you don't have to hold them but can remove them easily. You can get battery voltage from the Battery/output terminal of the alternator to feed terminal. Another thought regarding the LED, most are polarity sensitive, I would remove the LED and try it with a regular incandescent bulb, no diode.
Edited by Jim.ME - 12 Dec 2019 at 6:20am |
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Will give that a try.
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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If you try an incandescent bulb remember the socket needs to be isolated from ground and it needs ground and power wires for the bulb so it ties into the wire to the alternator in series.
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Ted in NE-OH
Orange Level Joined: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Austinburg OH Points: 1703 |
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It may be charging but just not through the ampmeter. Check your wiring to amp meter
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11589 |
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He states he only has 11.5 volts at the battery, that's not charging.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5744 |
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If I were standing there, I'd disconnect that white wire from the big post, tape it, and run a new wire from that stud, direct to the battery +post... then start it, and put a voltmeter on the battery and see if it climbs up. If the existing (white) wire is going through the ammeter into the original wiring, there's probably a mouse-chewed who-knows going on.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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He said in an earlier post the white wire had been replaced since the photo was taken. If I understood it in an earlier post the new wire already goes to the stud of the starter switch same as the battery cable does, bypassing the ammeter.
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33805 |
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Should have 13.6 - 14.3 volts right on the main stud of the alternator... some of them had a spot in the back cover that you could stick a small screwdriver or nail in to ground the regulator to get full charge to see if the alt. was working. Don't see the the hole on this alt. cover.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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truckerfarmer
Orange Level Access Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Location: Watertown, SD Points: 3215 |
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Didn't get a chance to look at it tonight. Wife drug me out Christmas shopping.
Coworker mentioned the spot on the regulator, but I understood him as to pushing a button in there. Didn't understand grounding the regulator. May try that. Could someone explain that a little more. |
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33805 |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33805 |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 950 |
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I think the white wire is blocking being able to see the test tab in your photo. When I blow the photo up I think the edge of the hole is visible. It should be right in the area The arrow points to. If you look in the hole you should see the tab. That's where it will be if its there. Try the jumper wires first to rule out the lack of excitation power.
Just to confirm. The battery is hooked up negative ground correct? Edited by Jim.ME - 13 Dec 2019 at 6:18am |
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