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mfg in west allis

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jeickman01 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jun 2019 at 4:24pm
Ok, I admit that I was privileged to spend twenty years working for an Allis competitor that is still doing very well but also admit to having a loyalty to Allis because that is what Dad succeeded with and I spent many an hour operating.  And I don't know the exact reasons that Allis failed.  I know that this was before the onslaught of cheap goods from China and most likely didn't have anything to do with their failure but am reminded again today of the demise of our industrial base.  China must really be laughing up their sleeves at our stupidity.  Long story short, I retired and want to buy a little wagon gear to pull behind a lawn tractor on our acreage.  Do you think that I can find anything made in the USA? What happened to us?  
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DiyDave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2019 at 5:51pm
What happened to ALLIS, that it manufactured SO many things, in SO many markets, that the profits from the AG division got sucked up by lots of divisions, that were bleeding so much cash, Allis became more valuable cut up on the butcher block...

If you find anything to pull behind your tractor, it will prolly be an antique!Wink
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john(MI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2019 at 10:05pm
You could make your own.  Some of the parts may came from China, but you made it!  You could use the steering from the front of a old rider.  Make  the rear axle out of a length of cold rolled steal.  And depending on your skill you can build up from there with wood or steel.

I saw a cart with an old hit and miss engine on it, the was the chassis of an old riding  mower.  Very nice job, it had an oak deck on it.
D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nella(Pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 5:07am
Originally posted by jeickman01 jeickman01 wrote:

Ok, I don't know the exact reasons that Allis failed.  



I personally new a block man that covered the East coast for Allis Chalmers, he always said that bad management was a big part for the failure. 
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Gary Burnett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 5:59am
Look for a John Deere 80 cart think I have the number right they were made in USA
and are tough,I have and use one.Also have older Case,Simplicity and Massey Ferguson carts they are all good,the Case is real large,heavy and handy.
The 80's was a tough time for farming and farm equipment folks, things were changing
its not AC  just shut the doors exactly they were bought out this happens all the time in
all industries.Personally I think changing their looks when they went to those fiber glass hood tractors didn't help. The 175, 185 etc were some of the best looking tractors ever built then the next models were totally butt ugly.
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Pat the Plumber CIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 7:22am
There is a book "Stalin over Wisconsin " . A very hard read but very informative. Basically describes the difficulty the unions and management had getting along . I have read about 2/3 rds of it . As much animosity as there was between these 2 groups it is a miracle that they ever produced a tractor together . A good read for anyone interested . I doubt the labor/ management issues were the reason for the demise . I have been told terrible decisions, investments by management in the 70s really set the company back.

Edited by Pat the Plumber CIL - 30 Jun 2019 at 7:23am
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 9:01am
Heres my take on Allis Chalmers failing;; it didn't happen over night,, in 68, ? Dave Scott stepped in to the CEO spot, he turned things around but Ac was huge and hard to keep a handle on everything, then 74 they merged with Fiat in the heavy equipment sector, with Fiat in control , there goes some money, then the electric equipment sector was supposed to boom , but didn't and they merged with Siemmens in that with Siemmens in control there, more money slipping away, then the West Allis plant was a huge machine shop but without orders to fill, this investment wasn't making money either and it cost a bunch to keep the lights on , in 79 they had record profits but it was all going down hill, they built Sulzer ship diesel engines at West Allis for work but that was all red ink in the books, Dave Scott had buddied up with Carter and they started the coal gasification project, Kiln N Gas,, good idea , but Carter was out and Regan in,, bad deal for this progect- all of Allis markets had slowed down and interest rates started to climb, the big factor was the Agriculture markets started to go backward and this Ag sector was always profitable for Allis especially the Gleaner combine , rumor was it made 95% of the companies profit many years, Allis had just introduced the best tractors they ever had to sell - but no buyers,, everything came apart in the 80,s , they couldn't pay their bills,, so bankrupty got to be the only option, they bowwored 64 million from 64 banks to keep going and that failed ,, the corporation was split up, sold and gone - Houston Oil Field services was only thing left, then Oil Quip bought them to make Allis Chalmer Energy,,, sad something so big could be reduced to nothing ,, the world keeps turning tho
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Pat the Plumber CIL Pat the Plumber CIL wrote:

There is a book "Stalin over Wisconsin " . A very hard read but very informative. Basically describes the difficulty the unions and management had getting along . I have read about 2/3 rds of it . As much animosity as there was between these 2 groups it is a miracle that they ever produced a tractor together . A good read for anyone interested . I doubt the labor/ management issues were the reason for the demise . I have been told terrible decisions, investments by management in the 70s really set the company back.

Another good read is Walter Peterson's An Industrial Heritage, What basically happened with the commie/unions is that they put AC in the # 3 position, behind JD and IH, shortly after WWII, in 1946.  This idled the lines at a time of high demand, which the other manufacturers were able to use, to gobble up AC's customers...

Here's a link, to Peterson's book:


Once behind, its hard to jump ahead, despite all of AC's innovations, and firsts.  Once the spiral starts, its hard to stop.  Had the perjurer, commie, Christoffel not have been in, at the union, things might have gone differently...

Now here's a face any AC guy could never grow tired of punchin...Wink



Edited by DiyDave - 30 Jun 2019 at 6:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigal121892 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 6:29pm
Allis Chalmers management, wanted to go head to head with Deere, Cat, GE/Westinghouse. One of those battle fronts would have been tough, but all three at once, was not going to end well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeickman01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2019 at 7:12pm
Thanks for all the responses to a late night rant.  DiyDave gave me a lead on a book I didn't know was out there.  I worked in a UAW plant and they caused a lot of grief because of stupid grievances but they also raised my salary as a white collar employee because when they got a bump I got a bump.  It was only when the company I worked for was able to convince the UAW that working together was the only way to mutually survive that the crap subsided.  If that was part of the Allis problem I fully understand.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Austin(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 8:48pm
Another take on the 1946-47 strike:

I've looked at the primary sources that are with the Wisconsin State Historical Society, read the books mentioned above, and listened to hours and hours of interviews conducted with workers on that picket line. There is a lot of information/documents/ interviews/ and testimony about this strike. Remember the time period, too. The Cold War had just begun, and Red Baiting was not uncommon. American sentiment was shifting from supporting organized labor to being cautious and suspicious of "Communist" influence. Big companies, like AC, were transitioning to peacetime manufacturing and saw the moneymaking potential. Unions were trying to hold onto the gains they made. There had been strikes during the war where unions and management faced off. Left-leaning policy had favored the blue collar workers and organized labor since FDR came into office in the early 1930s. The pendulum had swung to the right in 1946 when the GOP took control of Congress. This was the chance management at Allis-Chalmers had waited for-- to flex some muscle and crush the union once and for all. This would also set the example for manufacturers across the country and lead to the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 to roll back organized labor's power.

I don't know if there is any concrete evidence to support the assertion that this 329-day strike is what caused the company to flatline 40 years later. I think more research needs to be done. I did read Peterson's book, too. He seemed pretty optimistic about Allis-Chalmers when we wrote the book in the 1970s. In the end it was like a perfect storm...things AC should have invested in they didn't, and things that they took a chance and invested in failed. Management made some bad decisions, the union wasn't willing to concede things when the company needed it the most, the economy tanked, etc, etc, etc. In the end....a company is never too big to fail.



Edited by Austin(WI) - 01 Jul 2019 at 8:50pm
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BV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 10:02am
John Deere 80 is the wagon you need, I have one that's heavy duty and very handy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Hauter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 8:17pm
I remember hearing a speaker at a banquet (A GOTO banquet in 1998, I think.) say that in the early 1980's A-C, IH, and Deere were all in a similar position.  Deere survived because they had better management.  A-C and IH failed because they had poor management.  If I remember correctly, the speaker worked at A-C during that time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaybird14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 7:20am
Originally posted by DougG DougG wrote:

Heres my take on Allis Chalmers failing;; it didn't happen over night,, in 68, ? Dave Scott stepped in to the CEO spot, he turned things around but Ac was huge and hard to keep a handle on everything, then 74 they merged with Fiat in the heavy equipment sector, with Fiat in control , there goes some money, then the electric equipment sector was supposed to boom , but didn't and they merged with Siemmens in that with Siemmens in control there, more money slipping away, then the West Allis plant was a huge machine shop but without orders to fill, this investment wasn't making money either and it cost a bunch to keep the lights on , in 79 they had record profits but it was all going down hill, they built Sulzer ship diesel engines at West Allis for work but that was all red ink in the books, Dave Scott had buddied up with Carter and they started the coal gasification project, Kiln N Gas,, good idea , but Carter was out and Regan in,, bad deal for this progect- all of Allis markets had slowed down and interest rates started to climb, the big factor was the Agriculture markets started to go backward and this Ag sector was always profitable for Allis especially the Gleaner combine , rumor was it made 95% of the companies profit many years, Allis had just introduced the best tractors they ever had to sell - but no buyers,, everything came apart in the 80,s , they couldn't pay their bills,, so bankrupty got to be the only option, they bowwored 64 million from 64 banks to keep going and that failed ,, the corporation was split up, sold and gone - Houston Oil Field services was only thing left, then Oil Quip bought them to make Allis Chalmer Energy,,, sad something so big could be reduced to nothing ,, the world keeps turning tho
My father worked in the AC corporate staff for almost 30 years. you nailed it. When i was young we took a tour and saw one of those huge ship engines on the floor. What a cool place it was.
Now the West Allis buildings are office space. Still supporting working folks. ( my wife works in one of them just off Washington street.
 Both my father and father-in law raised families working for Aliis Chalmers. Father-in law was on the floor doing sheet metal work. he also was a small time farmer he had a few different tractors.. all went away .. but one.. I have a WD lol.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 2:19pm
My Gal friend is an accountant and I just bought more AC annual reports 72, 73, , and she comments to have as many millions of dollars in the 70,s was unreal , a company should thrive,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2019 at 4:37pm
Having lived through the strike year 1945 - 46 it was a killer.  At that time the farmers had MONEY!!! from the demand from WWII.  We could have sold ANYTHING at that time and got six yes SIX tractors.  Most of them C's. 
We had customers but when we could not deliver they went to other dealers who had supply.  When we finally got the equipment the window was closed.  I firmly believe along with the author of the "Plow Peddler" and others that that was what eventually KILLED Allis Chalmers.  The sales and increased capital we lost caused Allis Chalmers to cut back on research.  The only really new tractor we got after the war was the G.  Everything else was an upgrade from the WC and B-C. 
That was a blow Allis Chalmers never recovered from. 
Good Luck!
Bill Long


Edited by Bill Long - 15 Jul 2019 at 4:39pm
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