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Hd6g rops |
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 11:42pm |
Hi Everyone,
I own a hd6g loader and live in the mountains on hilly terrain. For years i have been using my crawler without a rops and never even had a close call or scary moment. But with my first son counting on me for food for the next 21 years i feel its time i got one. Does anyone know of one for sale near the bay area in California? Anyone ever adapted one from a cat or other brand? If i have one built, where should the mounts be? Type of tube and wall thickness? Any pictures of what people consider good designs. Safe designs? I have no intention of ever using it of course, but if i do i need it to work! |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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Biggest issue is where it will mount, most cab covers added to these were or are mounted to the fenders where as such will do little good if a 16-20,000 lb machine rolls over. Most are operator guards for protection of weather or tree limbs/debris falls not for roll over.
The HD7G-B had engineered and Qualified ROPS, was mounted to the rear of the finals housing and to the loader support frame. May want to look at that design as to how heavy it would need to be. Edited by DMiller - 04 Dec 2018 at 6:09am |
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 951 |
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Weather/brush/debris guards are one thing. A ROPS needs to be engineered and designed for the machine, its mounting as well as the structure. ROPS are not something people should be throwing out ideas of how to build. In our society if you build one, later sell the machine as having a ROPS, and the next guy flips the machine and it fails; you could find yourself in the line of liability. Better have all your design, calculations, welding certs, MTRs, etc. for back up. If you feel you need a ROPS, buy a real one made for your machine. JMHO
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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Were none factory built for 6Gs.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 951 |
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I understand there were no factory ones, but there are companies that will design and build them aftermarket. Not inexpensive by any means, especially for a one-of structure.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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Know of a few that will sign off as Canopy, not many will accept liability as ROPS especially for a forty plus year old machine.
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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Being in Califoria, number one sue state of the union, i can understand the liability issue. That said, its too bad that everyone is so scared to stand behind thier work.
But in the end, will it work. I understand this thing is a baby compared to the big boys, but it still admonishes me how much such a small package can weight! For peace of mind alone it would be nice to know that its actually going to work if the day comes that it needs to. Any comment on that position? Is it unrealistic? |
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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If i have one built i will have it built by a friend that designs roll cages for off road race trucks. Certified welder. And given his lack of experience im sure way overbuilt and triangulated to the point of being annoyingly togh to get in and out of.
Thats why i would much rather deal with someone who has experiance with such things. Get what i need, and not more than i need. But be 100% sure that what i get is going to work. P.s. Am i being paranoid here? Can consciousness of operation and half a brain keep these things oil pan down with some certainty? I worry more about shifting mud, not seeing a drop off, ect that just being plane stupid. That said, im not immune to the "oh just an inch more, ill be fine" mistake now and then either. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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Most decently built canopies will not collapse on a tip over, a lot of the ROPs will still collapse if rolled down a hill several times passing inverted. A good weld shop nearby can do much of your leg work as to a Reasonably heavy and sturdy canopy rather than searching for something that really does not exist. Do not press them on building a "ROP" system as most will turn that down against liability.
Local excavation company lost one of their owners to a 90 degree tip after sliding sideways off a trailer. Was a 750 Deere with ROP, the man had failed to fasten the seat belt in the seat as 'Would Only take a minute' to move the machine was a common retort. Machine slid off the low boy sideways and as landed threw him out then completed the tip over with the ROP frame crushing him. Best option have a decent operator station cover built then ADD seat belt and USE it. Edited by DMiller - 04 Dec 2018 at 10:52am |
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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Thanks DMiller. Sobering story about the rollover. I suppose they call them accidents for a reason. No operator sets out to perish, and i have succumbed to the "it will just take a second" falicy myself more times than i care to admit.
Do operators also wear hand restraints to keep hands and arms under the canopy? Or is a wire mesh door "windshield" and side curtains the better option for keeping hands attached to the body in the event of a roll over? |
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RonnieJones
Silver Level Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: California Points: 75 |
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Here is what I would do. I would find one off a heavier machine and adapt it.
In pick up trucks they use to call the light bar a roll bar. This actually depends on it's mounting. If it's mounted to the frame it's a roll bar, mounted to the bed light bar. So if I were to adapt anything I would make sure it can be attached to the frame work of the machine. I looked up a couple of HD6's, to me the stock one doesn't seem like much, or are they a canopy? I also don't know how the bodies are attached to any kind of framing. Just a newbie thought.
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RonnieJones
Silver Level Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: California Points: 75 |
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lol wow I am a really slow typer or I am blind and missed the whole other 4-5 post about having a friend build the roll cage. Never hurts to have more than you need.
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michale34
Silver Level Joined: 15 Mar 2011 Location: arkansas Points: 472 |
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Back in the early 80s we had a job going on at the arsnel . We were using a 7gb with factory rops when something happened and it had to be taken in for repairs . The us army would not let us bring the 6g past the gates because it didnt have proper rops on it . Dad had a canopy off a old cat mounted on it but it wouldnt pass its standards . Ended up having to rent a fl9 I think it was to finish that job that was almost complete .
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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That is a true statement, no matter what is put on this machine it can not be considered as ROPS, just a canopy as is Not a factory build.
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michale34
Silver Level Joined: 15 Mar 2011 Location: arkansas Points: 472 |
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I guess it was the late 70s when all those codes went into place working on gov property. I know before we used the 6g at the arsnel with no cab we just had to have a buck-up horn on it. It was a portable box that hooked to one of the batterys and it sat on top of the battery box and when you put the machine in reverse you pulled a knob out and the horn started beeping. Same thing for the john deere 400 backhoe .
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51629 |
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Just having a ROPS don't make you bullet-proof. If the dozer is 40+ years old, that says something good about it. I would just drive it, remembering that if you do something dumb, it can have severe consequences... This coming from one who bush hogs a slope that goes to about 35º, with a kubota 2wd rice paddy tractor. (by the way, you know the slope is at 30º, when your tucas starts to take a bite out of the seat cushion...)
Was gonna post the picture of the guy in asia, who met his demise, backing a cat D8H offa the tall (rear end) of a lo-boy trailer, and it flipped over on top of him No ROPS, No common sense, either...
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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First off, thank you all for your input. It has all been constructive and helpfull; which is not always the case on the internet.
Let me summarize the more critical points: 1) Dont be fool. Nothing is foolproof and even a proper rops would not survive multiple rolls. So in other words, make sure not to drive like you think your invisible on account of a rops, which in actuality cant be a rops because it wasn't engineered or tested to OSHA standards anyway. 2) Find a company that can build a "canopy" and refer to it as a canopy or they wont build it. Mention that you want them to make it a really really strong canopy. 3) Whomever makes said canopy, make sure it's attached to the "big stuff" like the final drive case, loader frame, ect. Finaly, regardless of end design, the canopy is useless protection unless you also have a seat belt and make sure to use it every time you are in the machine. 4) Consider buying somthing originally designed for a bigger machine and then having it adapted to my machine. 5) Nothing trumps common sense. If your bottom is puckering enough to stretch the seat vinyl, consider backing off your approach and look for a safer way. This approach could mean that you may not need a rops at all. Gents, have i missed anything important? I'll be sure to update this thread once i decide what to do so that some future newbie may benefit from our discussion here. Thanks again, and by all means feel free to keep commenting if a new idea comes up. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31048 |
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I had no false premise for building my canopy myself, I built it of 1/4" wall square pipe with a 1/8" steel cover but my intent was for tree limbs protection as I use the machine in the woods. I purchased a second machine that had a custom cage on it where at some point it will go on my machine, but as such it too was attached to the fenders and hard nose where it is just a Limb and brush cage.
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4505 |
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I have been putting canopies on my Cat D6's of the same vintage. Nice to hold on to and saves air cleaners and exhaust pipe with a sweeps. I had a friend that added screens thinking he was safe from all brush. Well he came close to losing a eye from a twig that poked through.
Common sense is the best protection you can have. Not first hand but reliable information, operator rode a high track Cat D7 through multiple rolls all buckled in, he lived but just barely. From your first comments if at all possible don't be out in the mud here in Caly we have lots of dry weather.
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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Thanks everyone. We had a string of storms out here that have had me cooked up inside, so not much to post.
I do have some pictures finally since 100% of my questions have multiple request for them. Just warning you, she ain't pretty. Now i just need to find a place to host them. I found two interesting things out about this topic. 1) the HD6 was offered from Allis Chalmers with a roll over protection device - aka rops. Yes, they did refer to it as an actual roll overdevice, not a brush guard or any of that. I suppose that the lawyers and "victims" of those days had not yet gained the power to dictate what the enginners could and could not build or what the marking department could and could not call it, or be truthful about that features true capability to save a life. If anyone knows of one out there that is, or that somone might be persuaded to sell please let me know. My wife and 6 year old son would be grateful to you forever. As for me I would be two, though i wonder if going out that way may not be better than dealing with the lawyers at work who can tell me with unquestioned authority what i can and cannot build and what i can and cannot say it does or does not do 《eye roll》. 2) the second thing i learned is that a national goverment group is working with states to provide free rops devices to owners of tractors in order to reduce the number of farmers killed in rollover accidents. If the factory says its a rops then they will puchase it and pay to have it installed. Even a used factory authorized rops qualifies so the Allic Chalmers rops i mention above would qualify for the program. It would be nice to have a certified welder install it. They also have a generic rops that they will pay for and install at no cost to owners of smaller tractors. You dont have to be a farmer, hobbie tractors, ranchers, construction all qualify. The bad news is that not all states are participating in the program, and Cailfornia is one of them. Our arrogant state politicians would rather give the cash to illegal aliens, or challenge federal law and harass our president. The fanatical environmentalists dont't help the cause because they hate farmers despite the fact that $47.1 billion was generated by California agriculture, which is 2 percent of the state's economy, was the largest amount for any state and made up 12.5 percent of the total agricultural production for all 50 states. Okay enough ranting. For those of you in states that do support the program here is the Web site where you can apply for the program. https://www.ropsr4u.com I usually dont approve of hand outs, but lets face it, we paid for it in taxes, all the government is doing is actualy using our money to help the people who gave it to them. How shocking! Cheers, Leo |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51629 |
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I tend to shy away from free gubment programs... They are hardly ever what you pay for them, and the strings that come with them often end up chokin you!
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Leop
Silver Level Joined: 03 Dec 2018 Location: California Points: 161 |
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Probably true David.
But it would sure be nice to see some of my tax money actually help me after all that cash they keep taking. Then again, as Regan said the 9 most horrifying words you can ever hear are "Im from the government and I'm hear to help." |
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