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185 Brakes
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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7501 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 185 Brakes
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:36pm
Found out why my new to me 185 didn't stop very well...

Also wondering if the drum is supposed to be flared at one end...

Final question:  Does the transmission oil need to be drained to remove the differential bearing carrier?  I loosened off one of the bottom bolts and I saw oil coming out of it.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Boss Man View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
Points: 617 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:42pm
pretty sure the drums are supposed to be flat. looks like time to go parts shopping
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8623 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:12pm
Pretty sure the oil level is higher than bottom of carrier brg. 
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Rick View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Jonesburg,Mo.
Points: 3697 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:37pm
That brake drum looks shot to me...I can see what looks to be a taper in it. I have a set of relined brake bands with the good material on it, if interested and I can even get the disc brake drums as well, along with all of the springs, etc.. Send me a message, if interested.   Rick
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Alex09(WI) View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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Points: 1749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex09(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 11:55pm
Yeah, looks like brakes were a long time coming! that brake drum is shot, I would find a different one if it were mine. You will need to drain a couple gallons from the transmission/differential to remove the bearing carrier. When full, the oil level is just below the seal but high enough so the bottom of the differential bearing runs in oil.
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A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287
KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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DougS View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Points: 2490 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:23am
If that's how the drums and shoes look, I'd imagine the rest of the brake system is equally worn. The disks would have to be worn too and the same for the steel they rub against.
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tbran View Drop Down
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Points: 3526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 4:43pm
better get a service manual and check the inner to outer dimensions. IF two wide they will have to be machined and shimmed - or at least shimmed. IF they are worn like suspected your brakes will lock up when applied when reassembled unless fixed.
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 7501 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by tbran tbran wrote:

better get a service manual and check the inner to outer dimensions. IF two wide they will have to be machined and shimmed - or at least shimmed. IF they are worn like suspected your brakes will lock up when applied when reassembled unless fixed.


Yes, I do have a copy of the brake replacement procedure from the Allis service manual, courtesy of my local former Allis dealer.  I used it a few years ago when I did the brakes on my D17IV.  I did have to buy shims that time.  I am more concerned about the shape of the brake drum seen above in my current situation.  Do you think a machine shop can put them on a lathe to flatten that tapered ledge?
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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MACK View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:20pm
Then drum dia. Will be too small for bands.    MACK
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Points: 2490 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by DSeries4 DSeries4 wrote:

Do you think a machine shop can put them on a lathe to flatten that tapered ledge?

The diameter will be too small once you machine that drum. I looks like it's time to bite the bullet and replace some parts. Thank the previous owners for neglecting the brakes for years.
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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 7501 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
This is the biggest problem with the tractor.  I am not complaining.  She will stop on a dime and give back some change by the time I am done with it.  I see new drums are available, so I will add 2 of them to my list.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 7501 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2018 at 11:29am
So I got new brake drums and shoes from A&I.  The original balls looked to be in good shape - no pitting or noticeable flat spots, so I put the assembly together with them.  The Allis manual states that clearance between the drum and bearing carrier should be between 33 and 88 thou (I do not have the book with me as I type this) when everything is back together.  But I am barely getting 15 thou with no shims on the bearing carrier.  Anyone else have this problem?  Had no problems when I did my D17 diesel a few years ago.

Can anyone shed some light on how to get at least 33 thou clearance?  Can the bearing carrier be machined down? 
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
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Points: 3902 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2018 at 6:31pm
i got got some brake shoes for a older case backhoe a year ago they were a full 1/8 inch to thick to go back together 
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MACK View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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You don't change the shims on bearing carrier. Change shims behind brake surface on axle housing. Three bolts.     MACK
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Points: 1749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex09(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2018 at 10:59pm
Since you said there are no shims behind the bearing carrier, if you removed them you could have problems in the future because they maintain the tolerance for the differential bearings. If you removed some shims there, put them back and use the shims behind the brake surface on the axle housing to adjust the clearance. As a last resort, brake surface on the axle housing can be machined down, but unless the A&I parts are thicker than the originals, you shouln't need to take that drastic of a step.
www.awtractor.com
A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287
KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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Rick View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 3697 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 5:42am
I had someone purchase a set of brakes from me for a D15 here a while back and he complained that the material was too thick. So, I sent him another set to try and he said they were the same way. I told him the material is and should be 3/16". He bought another set from A&I and said they were too thick as well, but matched the thickness of the ones I sent him. He said he got the drums from A&I and I told him to call an AGCO dealer or A&I and ask them what the diameter of the brake drum should be and that was the problem...the brake drum was to large on the OD and once machined down, worked great with what I sent him. NEW parts are not always correct. This might help to check that out...Rick
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