| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Layne 
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Very early Industrial United
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 8:43am |
I just bought this beauty at an auction to decorate my new yard with. You can see it's doing a fine job of that already.  I quickly realized the fenders were "missing", then realized it never had them. It's an industrial model. Which I've since learned was the main focus of United tractors, so not really that odd. Then I found the serial number... 
The second character is created with 3 separate chisel strikes, rather than a correct letter or number stamp. So is it an "I" for industrial, or a number 1? I'm aware that the correct model name is "I-U", not "UI", but the sales literature documenting the I-U name is much later than this tractor. I've also found another industrial tractor serial number UI637 offered for sale (no photo of the SN was presented), which would support the theory that the letter I was placed after the U on industrials.
It's also not clear if they used double zeros before single digit SNs. In the registry no one has extra zeros listed. But again, no photos. I've personally participated in the manufacturing of the first few of something though, and I can tell you inconsistencies like that are unavoidable.
There's also the engine serial number to consider...
Seems unlikely that engine #544 could be installed into tractor #1005. Should be able to prove this by comparing the numbers of other Continental engined U's. So far I've only found 2 points of comparison. Tractor #U2651 has engine #2973 Tractor #U3849 has engine #4172
A difference of 322, and 323, respectively. Interesting that they are so close. If my tractor is indeed #5, the difference is 539. But it's likely they had a large stock of engines on hand to begin production. More than would have been in stock once production was running smoothly. I also found a casting number on the head of the engine that seems to be 5-27-29. That's about half a year before the United was even announced, and even longer before production began.
So what do you think? Is it UI 005, or U 1005? Being the 5th made as far as I can tell would be the oldest known U, also making it the oldest known Persian Orange tractor. That's got to be something.
Seems like this belt pulley transmission is pretty unusual. I think it has 4 positions. The case and lid have casting numbers beginning with U, the same as every other major part on the tractor. I assume the pulley didn't fit anymore after the rubber tire conversion and was removed.
The brake is unlike most other industrials, but there were multiple factory options for brakes. It's a food pedal only, with a locking mechanism on it.
Some more pics. I'm missing the air cleaner, and I'm sure the carb is not the correct one.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3789
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 9:32am |
very cool find. I would go with 005. i have U 14k something and if i recall the top of the 1 slopes down but i could be wrong. need some one with an UI to chime in on what their serial looks like.
i have to protest about it being yard art though.
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
Don(MI)
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Points: 3847
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 9:38am |
|
I think Allis tractors started some models with serial #1000 then up? So yours could be #5 if that theory is right?
|
|
Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
|
|
Allis dave
Orange Level
Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Northern IN
Points: 2975
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 9:50am |
|
That's a very cool find. I hope people on here can shed some more light on it
|
|
Gary(WI)
Orange Level
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Location: WI
Points: 1003
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 10:22am |
|
There is a fellow that has a United here in southern WI I believe his is serial number around 7 Maybe someone knows who he is
Edited by Gary(WI) - 06 Jul 2018 at 10:22am
|
|
Layne
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:16pm |
|
The U is well documented as beginning with 1, but no one ever says if it's just 1 or 001. Really though, it was probably just up to the man stamping that day.
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3789
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:33pm |
|
true. unlikely its 001 as opposed to 1
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
Gary(WI)
Orange Level
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Location: WI
Points: 1003
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:38pm |
 Serial number of one of our IU tractors Neither of ours are stamped IU
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53300
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 5:51pm |
Could that serial number be 1005, with the 1 altered to an I? didja buy it, from 2 brothers, in Alabama? 
|
|
Layne
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 7:19pm |
 DiyDave wrote:
Could that serial number be 1005, with the 1 altered to an I? didja buy it, from 2 brothers, in Alabama? |
No, bought it here in TX, and I doubt it's ever been to Alabama. You know another one there?
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53300
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 9:09pm |
Layne wrote:
DiyDave wrote:
Could that serial number be 1005, with the 1 altered to an I? didja buy it, from 2 brothers, in Alabama? |
No, bought it here in TX, and I doubt it's ever been to Alabama. You know another one there? |
Layne, its kinda a private joke...
Seriously, though look at that first digit looks like a #1 stamp, that has been modified. Does not look like a factory I . I'm sure they had the stamps, If they wanted to make it an I...
#1005 would also put it in the 1929 production range...
Edited by DiyDave - 06 Jul 2018 at 9:12pm
|
|
Layne
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 7:51am |
DiyDave wrote:
[QUOTE=Layne] [QUOTE=DiyDave]
Seriously, though look at that first digit looks like a #1 stamp, that has been modified. Does not look like a factory I . I'm sure they had the stamps, If they wanted to make it an I...
#1005 would also put it in the 1929 production range...
|
It isn't a #1 or an I, it's been created with a chisel. The vertical member is too long to be a stamp from the matching set. Of course you assume they would have I and 1 stamps, but do you think they're going to stop production if something happens to it? As I said, I believe the engine numbers and SNs from other early tractors will be the proof either way, but so far no one is providing it. I'll try emailing some of the owners in the registry.
|
|
Layne
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 4:24pm |
Gary(WI) wrote:
There is a fellow that has a United here in southern WI I believe his is serial number around 7 Maybe someone knows who he is |
You're probably talking about Len Pautz. He confirmed for me that his serial number is just "U9" (no zeros), but he doesn't have the original engine to compare the engine number.
|
|
shameless dude
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 10:23pm |
|
looks like the brakes is easy to gits to, that's a good find!
|
|
GreenOrange
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 836
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:12pm |
|
Great early IU - congrats on the find! That foot brake setup was used on the U's up to U1008. After that they went to the hand lever. I believe it to be serial 1005, and that the 1 has been touched-up or re-stamped with a chisel, as mentioned. I've never seen an I stamped with the serial of the U, even on the very early IU's. Even the much more common IB didn't get its own serial numbers until after WWII. The other thing that leads me to believe it is 1005 is that I've seen several very early production A-Cs, and I've never seen 0's stamped ahead of the serial - even on single digit serial numbers. That's my 2 cents.
I've also got some early IU advertising - I'll see if I can determine anything about the unique belt pulley transmission.
Edited by GreenOrange - 09 Jul 2018 at 10:12pm
|
|
Layne
Bronze Level
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: North Texas
Points: 20
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 9:35am |
GreenOrange wrote:
Great early IU - congrats on the find! That foot brake setup was used on the U's up to U1008. After that they went to the hand lever. I believe it to be serial 1005, and that the 1 has been touched-up or re-stamped with a chisel, as mentioned. I've never seen an I stamped with the serial of the U, even on the very early IU's. Even the much more common IB didn't get its own serial numbers until after WWII. The other thing that leads me to believe it is 1005 is that I've seen several very early production A-Cs, and I've never seen 0's stamped ahead of the serial - even on single digit serial numbers. That's my 2 cents.
I've also got some early IU advertising - I'll see if I can determine anything about the unique belt pulley transmission.
|
Thanks very much for the input. I've come to agree with you, it must be 1005.
One interesting clue is the "1" in Gary's SN pic posted above. The top member is completely horizontal, not curved or angled downward as we would consider correct today. So if at the time, that's what they wanted a 1 to look like, the chisel marks on mine are closer to a 1 than an I. The SN "UI637" tractor I found mentioned on an auction website was probably also U1637.
|
|
GreenOrange
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 836
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 8:11am |
|
I haven't found anything directly listing the belt pulley transmission. Some winches and cable puller tractors reference the drum having three speeds forward and one reverse - closest I could find. The allied manufacturers built so many configurations, it's hard to know just what it was, but definitely a neat accessory.
|
|
