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Head Gasket O-rings? Required? |
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bobforapples ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Location: Orangeville OH Points: 21 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 May 2018 at 5:48pm |
OYE!
Well, working on my Allis C rebuild. I pressure tested the cooling system today after installing new sleeves and gaskets. To my delight I found a substantial leak bewteen the block and head on the rear of the engine. The headgasket is new and the head and block are flat. Here's just a wild shot in the dark please help if you can!!! The engine gasket kit came with 4 o-rings that I never found a use for. At one time I thought I should install them in the water passages between the head and block... I didn't remember the old head gasket having o-rings so I thought I must have been wrong and never found a use for em. So, Am I supposed to install these 4 o-rings between the head and block? |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21541 |
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Perfectly dry head gaskets on 70 year old blocks and heads aren't a good idea. That head gasket needed to be coated/painted with something on both sides. I'm assuming the four O-rings you have are for the valve cover nuts/washers.
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bobforapples ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Location: Orangeville OH Points: 21 |
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Good call on the O-rings for the valve cover.
I cant believe the dry gasket is the culprit, but maybe I learned something today. |
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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Did you warm up the tractor and re torque it to spec afterward? I have never used any thing on a fiber gasket and never had a leak on these little engines. I would guess that dirty holes in the block could be the problem or something along that line. Most all of those blocks I have cleaned had crap in the threaded holes that came up when I run a tap in when it came out.
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HoughMade ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Sep 2017 Location: Valparaiso, IN Points: 706 |
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I used copper gasket sealer spray on both sides of the head gasket on my B. That and torquing the head in 5 increments, then retorquing after it had warmed up and cooled- no leaks...but it could be luck of the draw,
Edited by HoughMade - 11 May 2018 at 8:55pm |
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1951 B
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21541 |
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When I was in business, I had three things I would fire an employee for. Never had to do it because they always complied. Always run a thread tap down thru each head bolt hole and blow them out and then bench wire brush off the head bolt threads clean and use light grease on the threads for lube. Clean, clean, clean. You can't do a good job of torqueing a head bolt if the threads are dirty, dry and rusty. We never worked on B's and C's but I can assure you the head gasket would have been painted with something on BOTH sides.
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bobforapples ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Location: Orangeville OH Points: 21 |
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Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm going to remove the head and run a tap through the holes, wire wheel the bolts, coat a new head gasket on both sides and try again. |
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Gatz in NE ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1043 |
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Might try Permatex Hi-Tack spray. Give it time to get tacky before assembly.
We used it alot on car & tractor engines and found it very suitable for Oliver Diesels when nothing else would hold. |
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bigal121892 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 809 |
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On a gas engine, I would always spray paint both sides of the head gasket with aluminum paint, never had a head gasket leak.
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john(MI) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9262 |
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Did you have the manifold on the engine? One or more of the studs may go thru to the water jacket.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Fred in Pa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9210 |
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When u say head and block are flat .Where they machined and sleeve height set .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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bobforapples ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Location: Orangeville OH Points: 21 |
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head and case checked for flatness, and also checked once the sleeves were it.
-Good point about the exhaust studs. I don't know if they are blind holes to the jacket, bet the pressure leak was form the head gasket. Autopsy tomorrow. |
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B26240 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 21 Nov 2009 Location: mn Points: 3865 |
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Like bigal I also use aluminium paint on both sides. I once worked on a tractor that someone had prior to me worked on and used some sticky stuff on the gasket, I had tractor lifted off the ground with the shop hoist and useing wedges on the corners finally got the head off.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 53585 |
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shellac also works good as a sealer, too...
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LeonR2013 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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A product called Flo-ex is the best stuff to use if you are having a problem getting a head gasket to hold. Bar none.
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bobforapples ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Location: Orangeville OH Points: 21 |
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I hope this post will help someone in the future! The head gasket included in my gasket kit was not labeled for Top/Bottom/Front/Back etc. I initially picked the orientation that matched the holes as close as possible. The water pump was not on the block at the time. Later when I installed the water pump I noticed that some of the headgasket was overlapping the block and was crushed by the water pump. I chalked that to poor quality and standards by the gasket company. (clearly this was not the case). I installed the head gasket backwards. Don't be like me! When you install a new gasket make sure the front of the gasket is flush with the engine block and not sticking out. The water passage on the rear of the head will not seal if the gasket is backwards!!!! Time to order a replacement gasket and try again. |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4932 |
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We've all done something similar. At least you didn't put a clutch plate in backwards and have to split the tractor again. Don't ask who would do something that dumb!!!
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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There ya go! I now remember doing the same years ago. When I went to put the water pump on I removed the head and turned the gasket around.
When I was pulling I used the same head gasket several times when trying out different grinds, valves, and porting. I reused the head gaskets until some of it picked up on the block or head. I never painted them with any thing. The idea back in the 1940's to paint the gaskets with aluminum paint was an anti seize idea to reuse the head gaskets at the time. I ground the valves on my 1952 Chevy and reused the head gasket that had been painted with aluminum paint. Back when people didn't have a government safety net people had to think about a possible slim financial future year. That is why your ancestors didn't throw many things away. |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8446 |
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Bob,
Thanks for your post! May save one of us some time money and frustration too!
Will be doing a pressure test on my WD45 today. Looking for leaks in all the right places! Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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