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Rudiger101 
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Joined: 14 Mar 2013
Location: SE SD
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 Topic: 7060 Tach/alternator problem
Posted: 21 Nov 2016 at 8:37pm |
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Hello,
I have a 7060 with a Delco tach. I started it the other day and did not notice any problems in the beginning. It got dark and I let it sit idling. As I was going over to park it in the shed I thought it looked like the lights were starting to dim. I climbed inside and saw my alternator light on. I also noticed that the tach was not working. After some research I see that the ground is a common issue when the alt/tach does not work so I pulled the dash out. Of course there are lots of wires. Where does it ground to? Also I noticed now that the alternator light does not come on when I turn the key on. Any thoughts? Should I get the alt checked?
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MACK
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Posted: 21 Nov 2016 at 9:21pm |
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Have never saw a dash ground keep alternator from working. The dash is grounded with a black wire bolted to side of transmission along with ground cable from battery. If alternator light does not come on, sounds like alternator needs rebuilt or replaced. MACK
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 7:58am |
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Remove the Alternator and take it down to your local Rebuilder and let him run some tests on it. Just might need some freshening up a bit to get ya back in business. HTH
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 8:08am |
could be brushes or the diode trio - unless you have worked on them - best to watch someone else first repair them - there is a alternator test you can do on machine but again might be best to let expert check it .
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LB0442
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Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 10:03am |
I don't mess around with the older alternators. I have used the newer CS130 Delco units for about the last 10 years. I installed this one in a 7080 about a month ago. It had a neihoff in it, the pulley bolts right on in place of the serp belt pulley. It was $29.95 at the local u pull it junkyard, you can usually find some pretty new ones there.   Take the connector with it. It has 4 terminals, F is for 12v ignition to excite the field, L is for the alt light on dash, P is for the Tach, S is not used here. I always pick up an extra connector because a lot of them only have 1 or 2 wires used, use the extra terminals for your application. You have to use a small wire or paper clip to release the plastic connector for the wire terminal. On this one it did not have a 12v ign source at the alt so I tapped into the electric lift pump wire. When you use this to replace a delco unit the tach does read slightly slower, about 150 -200 RPMs. When you replace a niehoff it is right on the money. 105 amp units. I have probably installed about 6 of these over the last 10 years, all have worked great. You do have to pick up a slide for the top adjuster bolt though. The one on this one came from a 70's dodge pickup, I have used ones from 80's fords also. Just has to be a flat steel with the slight curve for the adjuster.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 10:12am |
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The ground that is usually the problem is the ground AT the alternator. Basically its mounting.
Gerald J.
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Rudiger101
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Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 10:28pm |
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Thanks for the help. After reading your posts I learned a few things and ran a few tests. Things weren't checking out so pulled it off and had the alt tested at a shop, she was bad. Will get the new one in and hope that the tach works now. My light is out on the tach, is that repairable or new tach needed? Thanks again for the help
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 7:35am |
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There's a replaceable bulb in the back of the tachometer.
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Rudiger101
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 3:30pm |
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Anyone ever done it before??? It's not in the manual. lol
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LB0442
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Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 10:09am |
I have a bunch of spare parts for all the projects I get. Here is a picture of the back of a tach, the bulb housing is a press fit just unsnaps from the back. The best way I have found to get at the back of the dash is to take off the top cover above the oil bypass filter. Then unbolt the panel over the top of the gauge panel, you do have to slide it over some bolt heads at the top of the dash then slide under the cab to the front of the tractor. The side panels are a real pain if it is a cab tractor.
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cmack53
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Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 1:04pm |
hi i hate to resurrect an old post but LB0442 do you or anyone have a picture of the back of the telco alternator to see which wires go where. I'm going to switch out the neihoff out and just want to know how to wire it up
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DougS
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Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 2:31pm |
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If you look closely inside the Delco alternator connector you'll see the 4 terminals are marked. The BAT is the big stud on the back.
ETA: Some alternators have a ground stud, but it isn't necessary that you us it if the alternator is securely bolted to the engine. Also above, you don't want an alternator with an F terminal unless you intend to use an external regulator. Use the I or the L terminal for initial excitation.
Edited by DougS - 10 Aug 2017 at 5:55pm
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LB0442
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Posted: 13 Aug 2017 at 7:36pm |
I have been gone to the lake for the last week. No phones, cell service or internet. It was great.
I use 3 wires out of the 4, P is for the tach lead, L is for the gen light on the dash, and F is for 12v ign source. P stands for stator pulse, L is for light and F is for 12v to energize the field.
That extra wire that is cut is for the A/C compressor, haven't fixed that on this unit yet. I used this one in direct replacement of a niehoff, tach is right on the money. When I use this in place of a delco unit the tach will read about 200rpm slow.
I have been using these CS130 units for years, easy to find, cheap and 105 amps.
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guzzle
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Posted: 28 Aug 2018 at 9:29pm |
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Where did the pictures go? I sure would like to save this info.
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1981 AC 7060
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LB0442
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Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 9:05am |
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Found some of the pictures.
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ABDave
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Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 10:14am |
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I have an early 7060 sn2157 that has had the Delco replaced by a Niehoff alternator and the tach reads 500 rpm fast. A chap at the local shop that specializes in generator, alternator and starter repair said there should be adjustments on the back of the tach in the form of small tabs or buttons. He said they are quite small and need the tip of a pen or something similar to activate. I haven't looked yet but I hope he's right.
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guzzle
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Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 11:18am |
Thanks for updating them!
Since the Neihoff in my 7060 only has the BATT and one other wire (tach or light? not sure), I was hoping that the pics would clarify where the other two connections were picked up from and how to convert to a CS130 alt if my Neihoff goes out since $1700 for a new alt is out of the question.
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1981 AC 7060
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LB0442
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Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 10:10pm |
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Haven't seen a neihoff in a while but from what I remember there should be 3 wires on it. The main large wire for charging the battery, wire for tach lead and the wire for the alternator light. You just have to find a switched 12v source to excite the field for a delco unit. I used the feed for the electric lift pump on the one in the picture.
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LB0442
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Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 10:53pm |
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Just curious I had to go dig out a wiring schematic. The newer black belly units had the wire for the gen light on the alternator but the older neihoff units used a relay by the firewall that was energized and closed by the tach lead, brown wire, when running. It is still the same color wire, lt green/black just not on the alternator.
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guzzle
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Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 8:36am |
This is one of the newer black belly 7060 with s/n 8xxx. There are 3 wires but one is just a ground to the case. The one heavy wire (10 or 8 gauge) is obviously the BATT terminal and the other which is the same size as the ground wire has a rubber protective boot similar to the BATT terminal cover.
I just received a set of printed service manuals that are supposed to be for the 7060's after s/n 6001. I will dig into those to see if there is a schematic showing the Neihoff before I get any more confused.
Thanks for the replies.
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1981 AC 7060
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LB0442
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Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 9:06am |
Here is the delco one.
This is the early neihoff.
Then the later neihoff.
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guzzle
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Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 10:49am |
Apparently I have the earlier Niehoff flavor since I only have the 2 wires. So if I am understanding this correctly, to convert from a 2 wire Neihoff alt to a CS130:
Disconnect the Niehoff Brown wire from the relay and is also the Brown wire connected to the alt -> 'P' Find a key switched 12v source (16 ga min) -> 'F' Disconnect the Light Green/Black wire from the relay and extend it (16 ga min) to -> 'L' (if you have the later version, this wire is already at the alt).
The 8 gauge Orange BATT wire is the same on both alts.
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1981 AC 7060
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GM Guy
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Posted: 30 Aug 2018 at 2:51pm |
 LB0442 wrote:
I don't mess around with the older alternators. I have used the newer CS130 Delco units for about the last 10 years. I installed this one in a 7080 about a month ago. It had a neihoff in it, the pulley bolts right on in place of the serp belt pulley. It was $29.95 at the local u pull it junkyard, you can usually find some pretty new ones there.
Take the connector with it. It has 4 terminals, F is for 12v ignition to excite the field, L is for the alt light on dash, P is for the Tach, S is not used here. I always pick up an extra connector because a lot of them only have 1 or 2 wires used, use the extra terminals for your application. You have to use a small wire or paper clip to release the plastic connector for the wire terminal. On this one it did not have a 12v ign source at the alt so I tapped into the electric lift pump wire. When you use this to replace a delco unit the tach does read slightly slower, about 150 -200 RPMs. When you replace a niehoff it is right on the money. 105 amp units. I have probably installed about 6 of these over the last 10 years, all have worked great. You do have to pick up a slide for the top adjuster bolt though. The one on this one came from a 70's dodge pickup, I have used ones from 80's fords also. Just has to be a flat steel with the slight curve for the adjuster.
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Wht happened to the niehoff, and do you still have it?
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
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LB0442
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Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 9:08am |
guzzle wrote:
Apparently I have the earlier Niehoff flavor since I only have the 2 wires. So if I am understanding this correctly, to convert from a 2 wire Neihoff alt to a CS130:
Disconnect the Niehoff Brown wire from the relay and is also the Brown wire connected to the alt -> 'P' Find a key switched 12v source (16 ga min) -> 'F' Disconnect the Light Green/Black wire from the relay and extend it (16 ga min) to -> 'L' (if you have the later version, this wire is already at the alt).
The 8 gauge Orange BATT wire is the same on both alts.
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That looks great. Right now my IH 300U, JD diesel gator, and 72 searay boat all have that alternator in them also. Cheap, easy to find and 105 amps.
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LB0442
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Posted: 31 Aug 2018 at 9:12am |
Wht happened to the niehoff, and do you still have it? [/QUOTE]
I am going to keep it for the 7580. Even though they are expensive to fix I am trying to keep it as original as possible because it being the last one made.
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