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almost a huge mistake

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dt1050 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dt1050 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: almost a huge mistake
    Posted: 28 May 2017 at 5:54am
Gonna switch the d14 over to an alternator since the genny had crapped out.  a friend had 2 alternators in his garage that needed rebuilt one off a 1979 firebird and another from a 69 buick gsx.  I only needed them to figure out the brackets so no big deal they needed rebuilt.  firebird alt. was to big, the gsx was perfect! spent the rest of the day fiddling with the brackets to get every thing lined up. the next morning decided to price a alt. online. to my surprise it was only 50 bucks, good, checked the specs. it has an external voltage regulator!!!!! all that work for nothing!!!  luckily between me and the fella at the parts store we found a alt from a 1985 celebrity 4cylinder was the same size as the one from the gsx.

moral of the story, check to make sure it's the part you want before spending all day making brackets!!!!
Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 6:00am
BTDT.... when I grabbed the CS130 series alternaotrs for my 4 D-14s I made SURE I got the wiriing connector at the same time. Local autoparts guys want $24 for JUST the connector !!
alts and cons were free from scrapped cavaliers, so all the same.....

it's also a great idea to take pictures BEFORE you tear apart anything.....otherwise you'll spend hours wondering where a bolt  goes ONLY to find out it was NEVER on the D-14 to begin with...

Jay

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 6:13am
You didn't waste your time if you used a "DN" series Alternator for mock up. Its basically the same configuration as its "SI" cousin even it it was clocked a little differently. The cases and the mounting is basically the same. The wiring of coarse is different being a external VR is used with a "DN" series vs the internal regulated "SI" cousin.
Steve@B&B


Edited by Steve in NJ - 28 May 2017 at 6:15am
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dt1050 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 7:27am
I thought I was going to have to start all over, knowing my luck that was the only alternator that was designed that way...lol

when I pulled the dash foreward to get at the ignition and alt meter wiring I pulled all the conections out for the ignition...ad to figure all them out, before running any wires for the alt.  I also had to disconnect the power booster and oil pressure lines, just an fyi, if you start the tractor with those lines unhooked it will shoot oil 12 ft....want to guess how I know that?LOL
Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 7:44am
On an old tractor where the wiring is shot I install a one wire alternator run it to the
where the battery cable hooks to the starter solenoid.Then add a wire off the same connection to run to the ignition and back the starter post on the solenoid and lights if I want lights.I put in a fuse or breaker
between the alternator and the solenoid and another one off the wire going to the the other electrical stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dt1050 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 8:06am
the wiring was good, but most of it came out with the voltage regulator, haven't messed with a generator/regulator is a long time, forgot just how many wires they use.  Even though the wiring looked good, I ran new wires for the alt.
Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 9:55am


I just put a CS130 on my 7000 after my 10si got a little flaky on me last year. Everything mounted right up, only thing is the tach feed reads about 10-15% lower for some reason? But it's nice not having the alternator light coming on faintly with the stadium lights and a/c going!
Hurst

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 12:14pm
Is the pulley the same size?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dt1050 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 12:51pm
pulley was a different size, I took the pulley off the generator and put it on the alternator
Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2017 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by DougS DougS wrote:

Is the pulley the same size?

I used the pulley from the 10si and the same belts. It aligned right up using the mounts for the 10si. I'm not sure what could be different?

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2017 at 4:43pm
When you say "tach feed measures", what do you mean? Are you driving the tach off the P terminal of the alternator? The voltage shouldn't matter much here. The tach should be reading the frequency. The frequency would be the same no matter which alternator, providing the same sized pulley was used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2017 at 5:55pm
There is nothing inherent in the construction of an alternator that guarantees the same frequency for a specific shaft speed. The frequency is set by the number of poles on the rotor and the shaft speed.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2017 at 10:14pm
I imagine the cs130 has a different frequency than the 10si. I would still recommend it for the low rpm amps. I'll have to keep you updated on reliability. This is the first season.

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 4:04am
10% error seems odd, though. If it had 8 poles instead of 10 it wouldn't be a 10% difference.  Same goes for if it had 10 instead of 12 or 12 instead of 14.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 12:54pm
It's probably closer to 15%. WOT high idle reads about 2200-2300 instead of a little over 2500 rpms.

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:42am
I'm not familiar with the tach. Many tachometers have DIP switches that allow you to change the ratios. If your tach has a case that can be opened, you might want to take a peek inside.
 
Edit: 12 and 14 pole alternators are the most common. If you replaced a 14 pole with a 12 pole alternator your error would be almost 15 percent. You need to dig deep into alternator specs to determine the number of poles a particular alternator has.


Edited by DougS - 01 Jun 2017 at 4:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 7:50pm
Thanks for the help! I'll look into it! I wonder if the niehoff alternators used a smaller pulley that would correct the reading?

Hurst
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 8:29pm
yes, if the pulley was 15% smaller, you would get 15% more pulses out of the alternator  for the same MOTOR revolution.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 9:40pm
If you have a 2 inch pulley on the alternator now, switching to a 1.75 inch pulley should just about bring it to where you want it.
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