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Chris 
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Location: Indiana
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 Topic: Questions on trailers,hauling tractors
Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 1:16am |
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I bought a dodge dully getting ready to buy a gooseneck trailer to haul a couple tractors to shows.I know this has been brought up before on here but I never really payed attention to this.I' m a little confused about the laws on hauling and I've heard different ways to interpret the laws from several different people.I know every state is different.From what I've read is if you have a trailer with a gvwr of over 10,001 lbs you need a Cdl,what gooseneck trailer is under this weight?But your combined gvwr can't exceed 26,001 lb.My truck has a gvwr at 12,200 lb.What do all you guys do hauling tractors?
Thanks,
Chris
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wayneIA
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 1:56am |
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It varies on how well a state enforces the laws, just talked this last week to a guy in Illinois and he said that going to Iowa with hay they get hit by the DOT all the time. In Iowa, I haven't heard about too many people getting hit for not having the CDL, but if you get pulled over for something else, then you may have issues since they have you stopped (yes in Iowa a DOT officer would have to come to give you trouble for the CDL, but in Minnesota the state troopers do both jobs so they can get you and not need to call someone else). With the CDL requirement, you are supposed to have a class A if the gross trailer weight rating (GWR) is over 10001 pounds. Which if you have a trailer equipped with two 7000 pound axles then the trailer by the manufacture will most likely be rated at 14000 pounds. The 26001 pound rule, for a CDL, is if the vehicle you are driving is rated at that weight or more. In both cases it doesn't matter if for example you have a 3/4 ton pickup that is rated at 9900 pounds and you are pulling a tandem 7000 pound axle trailer (14000 GWR) then you would have a gross combination weight rating of 23900 pounds which would require the class A CDL in order to operate (due to trailer rating). In your case with a 12200 rated truck and for instance a trailer with two 4500 pound axles (9000 GWR) you wouldn't need a CDL since you are under the weight requirement. There are DOT number requirements also for when you exceed set weight amounts too. As far as I know, it is a national law that if you have a GCWR of 16001 or more (truck and trailer) then you are supposed to have DOT numbers on you vehicle when crossing state lines. In the state of Iowa, if you have a GCWR of 26001 or more than you need the DOT numbers to operate in state, but that can vary from state to state. I personally do have the class A CDL, DOT number, DOT medical card, but lack the state fuel tax stamp and commercial plates to legally run in all the states with the truck and trailer I have. The DOT number is an occasionally enforced law from what I hear (depends on areas of operation for how strict they are), and I haven't ever heard of anyone in a pickup and trailer having issues with the commercial plates or fuel tax, as long as they aren't hauling for hire. The biggest thing that will get people in trouble around Iowa is not having a high enough tonnage on the registration. There is a local guy that just got busted though that owned 3 gas stations, he had fuel (gas and diesel) delivered to one station, then he had an enclosed trailer with non-fuel rated tanks inside that he would fill to transfer the fuel to the other stations to avoid the extra delivery charges. The charges that I've heard of that he received were: no CDL, no hazmat endorsement on a CDL, no hazmat placards, incorrect containers for fuel transportation, no hazmat/MDS sheets in the towing vehicle, no DOT numbers, expired registration, no commercial insurance for transporting fuel, and insufficient registration for the tonnage of the vehicle and trailer. In all they said on the news there were 23 charges on him, and his equipment that he was using. He had been doing it for a while now, and was just a fluke that a local cop caught him with an expired registration that led to the additional charges.
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B26240
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 6:35am |
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I have been stopped several times in my home state of MN. Every time the first thing the officer wants to determine is if I am in business or hauling for hire. Last summer when I was stopped last he asked these questions,,,,,,, Where are you headed and what are you up to? At that time I was hauling building supplys for our house, satisfied with my answeres he then said "we are doing comercial vehical inspections here and that doesn't apply to you, you are free to go" If you are in it for any type of finacial gain you are subject to different rules. Now that said any unit that looks defective as in non working lites bald tires improperly secured loads will be looked at closer as public safety is on top of their list or should be.
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 7:09am |
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And the more you read on the internet the more you will be confused. My suggestion is to call the DOT in your state, tell them what you intend to haul and where and let them answer your questions. That's what I did,,,
Edited by Butch(OH) - 11 Apr 2017 at 7:10am
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Allis dave
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 7:42am |
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I was at a farm seminar this spring where invited an Indiana DOT trooper. He talked about various laws and things to watch for. He also gave us his email address for additional questions and I emailed him your exact question. Below is his exact response.
The only time you need to worry about the GVWR of your vehicles is if they are considered commercial motor vehicles, otherwise the only thing you need to worry about is your plate weight. If you are in the books as a commercial vehicle then the combination that you describe you would need a Class A CDL.
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MACK
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 8:07am |
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When in Iowa, I O W A stands for (I outta Went Around
). MACK
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TimNearFortWorth
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 8:15am |
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Not only GVWR, but how the load is secured is something you should clarify for your state plus any state you might be hauling in or through. I happened to be in the reg./tax office and a Texas Highway Patrol officer walked in.
I told him I wanted to take my 14K gross gooseneck (double single wheel axles) low deck out of state with farm plates to pick up a tractor. After asking to clarify my total weight (trailer plus load), he asked who owned the tractor. When told it was mine, in upstae NY and I wanted to drag it back to Texas, he gave me his card and advised if I was pulled over for farm plates in any state, "just have that officer call me". Advised that if it was my tractor for farm use, my Texas farm plates were good to go anywhere in the US.
Now that's Texas so you need to check your state requirements to be safe. I also asked if heavy duty straps were sufficient and he advised he would use straps and chains so other states that require chains would likely not bother me. Straps are good here if secured properly for the load.
D19D, my twisted clevis in the drawbar hole with secured pin and chain ran through same. I ran the heavy straps in a number of places and she was not going anywhere. I also had heavy pad eyes welded onto the trailer before this trip as I do not trust stake pockets.
I always stop after the first 10-15 miles and re-tighten as most loads (especially on rubber tires) will "settle in" allowing a tad more tightening. Check at each fuel stop is also a good idea on longer hauls.
Most importantly is having a tow vehicle that can not only pull it, but stop it safely as folks tend to cut in front of a pickup pulling a trailer in my experience. Good (rated) tires on both is just something you need to make sure are good enough and I also walk around the truck and trailer at each fill-up and touch the back of my hand to the sidewalls to make sure they are not too hot, along with the hub/bearing caps.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 9:34am |
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Also Cost of combo tags ,my combo at 23,900 for Pa $405. a year for the f-350 that's just the combo tag. Then u still pay for trailer .
If all else fails , READ WHAT BUTCH POSTED.
Edited by Fred in Pa - 11 Apr 2017 at 9:35am
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 10:00am |
Not all law enforcement officers know the laws clearly as I have been told conflicting statements of different officers. I have been told by the IL Secretary Of State that even though I'm a truck for hire I don't need a CDL unless I hit the 26,001 lb mark. Also I don't need a DOT number unless I cross state lines.
The bigger issue to me is that law enforcement keeps violating our rights. I respect law enforcement officers greatly. They have to deal with the worst of humanity in all types of situations. That being said law enforcement officers do overstep their authority. They have no right to stop you unless you have committed a criminal act. Also they have no authority to make you identify yourself or handover any forms of identification until they have told you want criminal act you have committed. At the moment they ask for identification that is when the stop becomes an investigation against you.
In 2000 the supreme court ruled that the states can not make you get a drivers license or register your vehicles as long as you don't use your vehicles for commerce. They also went on to say that you should only be detained for around 20mins if stopped.
It is difficult to drive without a license or not register your vehicles. As soon as police officers see no license plates on your vehicle they will pull you over and argue the state law and not acknowledge constitutional law which trumps states law. Once you get a drivers license you give up a lot of your rights. More people need to turn in both their drivers license and vehicle plates so that we can regain are rights. OKAY, I get off the soap box now.
Edited by DennisA (IL) - 11 Apr 2017 at 3:50pm
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Thanks & God Bless
Dennis
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DougS
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 10:19am |
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10,000 is not some magic number unless it's in combination with other factors. I once had a CDL in Oregon and they pretty much followed the federal guidelines. You needed a Class A CDL if you had a combination gross rating of 26,001 or more and the trailer had at least 10,000 of that. Every state is different but most states make exceptions for agricultural (and many times forest products) loads. Regardless, for safety sake you don't want to overload anything and you want to have good working and adjusted trailer brakes. Naturally you want to stay within the towing limits of your vehicle. In Oregon they nit-picked things such as... are the tires rated for the load you're hauling? As others have said, it varies by state.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 11:41am |
 Butch(OH) wrote:
And the more you read on the internet the more you will be confused. My suggestion is to call the DOT in your state, tell them what you intend to haul and where and let them answer your questions. That's what I did,,,
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victoryallis
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 3:45pm |
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I wouldn't mention you are going to a show. You are either heading to or from the mechanic. They are your hay raking tractors right?
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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ZachD89
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 6:53pm |
I have a 1987 twin screw Kenworth W900 with a 40ft flatbed trailer that I have classed at 48,000 lbs and it is around $1000 per year. In Pennsylvania the DOT cops are worthless to call and get any information from because they all say something different but as long as you don't make a cent with the truck you do not need any DOT numbers. I have NOT FOR HIRE on the side of my kenworth and DOT lets me go each time but if I cross state lines I need a trip and fuel permit for any state other than PA(unless you have IFTA stickers). I use my truck and trailer just for tractor shows or if I buy a tractor. 
Edited by ZachD89 - 11 Apr 2017 at 6:55pm
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37 A,37 Waukesha B,35 WC,38 WF,M crawler,49 WF,49 WD,53 WD45,39 and 40 RC,47 WC,41 B,39 B,48G,48,C,59D10,D21,IB,B10,B12,B208,B1,Roto Bale Loader, sp100 combine, allcrop 66, L3 Gleaner
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DougG
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 7:01pm |
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Nice tractor there!
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AC720Man
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 8:12pm |
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Just as bad in Va. I stopped at a state police station to ask questions. 2 officers and their superior was there. As soon as I started to ask questions about tags and weight they said i would need to ask DMV or a DOT officer. ? How can they in force the law if they dont know it. Anyway, went to DMV, explained that I had a Mega cab Dodge Diesel and a gooseneck trailer. Was asking the same questions. She pulled out a book that had combined weight with the price of tags. She said it depends on how much you wanna spend to allow you to haul the weight. Really??? No one cares whether your vehicle and trailer can safely haul it and stop the load? That's why manufactures give you that info. So I put 20,000 lb plates on. I feel very comfortable with that. Trailer is a Better Built 7 ton 24 ft dove tail. I know the police do not like the old style binders. If you use them they have to be strapped or wired so they cant fly open. They like the newer screw load binders. Tractor must have a chain attached at each corner with load binder if you want to be on the safe side. I like the 10,000lb soft straps but use them spariingly. Usually farmers are cut a break I think. They feel we are not going to far and if they see the load appears safe they usually leave you alone.
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 9:25pm |
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Per the book, a Texas Farm Tag is only good within 150 miles of its home address. That being said, I have been all the way to Iowa and back without a problem.
I have also seen someone pulled over pulling an empty tandem dual gooseneck with farm tags and ticketed for not having a commercial license.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Ray54
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 10:19pm |
Start by reading DMV codes for your state. Then ask about anything that is not clear. In this nutty state farmers can haul with a pickup truck trailer combination up to 26,000 lbs with out a CDL if it you own what is on the trailer. The code book was very cheap last time I bought one but change yearly. So now I look online to have the latest changes.
But there are little things that change all that. Example from a DOT officer,hauling a horse to herd your cattle is OK,same equipment and horse going to a horse show is not business but recreation and a CDL could be needed.
So there is always a bit of a gamble of what mood the officer is in and how they interpret the code. But keeping your temper hidden can go a long way in keeping trouble away.
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shameless dude
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Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 10:50pm |
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buy an enclosed trailer, puts sum smoked glass windows on the sides, put an a/c unit on the roof, have a ramp rear door, call it a toy hauler camper! register trailer as same.
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TimNearFortWorth
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 3:37am |
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I hear ya Joe about the Texas registration, but I still have that HP's card in the glove box and will verify if things have changed as that was 3-4 years ago.
Picking up the 185 in OK a few months back, stopped at a local café where three OK HP's were having coffee and I parked right along side of them. They chatted a few minutes when they went out to their cruisers and one even looked the 185 over, they never said a word.
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DougS
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 5:28am |
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If your state uses Motor Vehicle Inspectors or some such officers, that's where you want to go for information. It's their job to know and enforce these types of laws. You could probably find one at a weigh station.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 5:47am |
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OK, from this 'threa' I can't see how ANYTHING gets hauled ANYWHERE in the USA...man it's cornfusing....... tip of the hat for anyone who can get from A to B without red lights behind them !
Query... this...
I need a trip and fuel permit for any state other than PA
What's with a 'fuel permit'? You gotta buy a license( permit) to buy fuel now ???
Jay
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DougS
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 6:00am |
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They want a piece of the taxes from the motor fuel, jay. If you have an "apportioned" license plate that usually takes care of it all. Oregon was the only state I knew of that didn't acknowledge the apportioned plate. I wouldn't worry about any of this as long as your gross combination vehicle rating is under 26,001.
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Charlie175
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 6:17am |
Yep, same as my brother said. Waddle up and fork over the amount you want the tags to have, and have at it. They are only concerned with the Tag fee. We had a DOT guy come to our club mtg and he said it is up to the officers interpretation of the law on many things.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 9:12am |
I don't know what tractors you want to haul, but the bottom line is to stay under the 26,001 lb. line and no CDL is needed. Make sure that the plates cover the weight you plan on hauling.
Do not go over your weight limit. Most states will fine you $1.00 per pound you're over.
Make sure your load is tied down correctly. When hauling tractors a minimum of 4 chains per tractor. If you get stopped remember you are a hobbyist not a farmer. Farming is a business and a hobby is not. So the truck and trailer plates should be in your name not the farm (business) name.
If you do everything to the letter of the law you still may be fined if an officer has a different interpretation of the laws. It's okay to talk with the officers and question what they tell you but do it in a respectful manner. Ask the officer questions, as this can change the officers mind set from enforcer to educator and a since of helping you.
This system was sold to the public as being for safety, but it's not. The system has been put in place to generate revenue from the tags, fees & fines. You ever wonder why it's okay to haul loads that are over weight, height & width as long as you pay for the permits? If it's for public safety why don't they check if you have the proper equipment to do the job? They just want the money.
It's sad to see what we have let our government get away with. We have gone from a government ruled by the people to a people being ruled by the government. That is why is whole topic was started. How do we comply to government.
As I stated in my earlier post when you get a drivers license you give up rights.
Edited by DennisA (IL) - 12 Apr 2017 at 9:16am
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Dennis
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WF owner
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:28am |
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I have a friend that is a DOT inspector in NY State. Here are a couple things he told me:
A CDL is a federal license that is issued by the state you live in. All regulations relating to a CDL should be federal rules. By federal law, it's illegal for CMV drivers to possess more than one license of any kind, and you may have a license only from your state of legal residence. This means that you may not have both a New York CDL and a regular New York driver license; you should surrender your regular license when you obtain a CDL. If you have licenses from other states, you must surrender those as well.
All 50 states share information about CDL drivers, and if you are found to have licenses from more than one state, you might end up with a fine or even jail time. Since your New York CDL allows you to drive both passenger and commercial vehicles anywhere in the country, it's the only one you need.
If the total weight (truck/trailer load) is less than 26,000 lbs., no CDL is needed.
You need a CDL to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV), which is defined as:
~Class A: A gross combination weight rating is 26,001 lbs. or more or a trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs.
~Class B: A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more
Not all large vehicles require a commercial license. Generally, RVs driven for personal or family recreation, military vehicles driven by the military, farm vehicles driven on farms by farmers, and emergency vehicles driven by emergency personnel are exempt.
Federal laws require any piece of equipment over 10,000 lbs. to be secured with four Grade 70 (or higher) chains, plus a minimum of one chain on each attachment. For example, a tractor/loader/backhoe would need 4 chains on the tractor, plus (at least) one on the loader and one on the backhoe, for a minimum of 6 chains. He said this requirement is to assure that the piece of equipment stays attached to the truck or trailer in case of an accident.
He also said the federal law is very vague for equipment under 10,000 lbs. He said the law says all equipment must be "secured".
I routinely use ratcheting straps for tractors (under 10,000 lbs.), which he said is fine as long as the straps are rated for the weight of the equipment and in good condition.
He also said that any truck and/or trailer combination over 10,000 lbs. that is used for anything other commercial use (anything other than personal use), must have USDOT numbers.
Some of this info was copied and pasted from this site:
http://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/cdl-faqs.php
Hope this info helps.
Edited by WF owner - 12 Apr 2017 at 11:30am
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Ted J
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:42am |
DennisA (IL) wrote:
In 2000 the supreme court ruled that the states can not make you get a drivers license or register your vehicles as long as you don't use your vehicles for commerce. They also went on to say that you should only be detained for around 20mins if stopped. |
This is NOT true Dennis. See here: http://www.snopes.com/supreme-court-rules-drivers-licenses-unnecessary/Sorry..... 
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"Allis-Express"
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DougS
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:48am |
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Agreed, Ted. Beware of which "court" people cite. Some people live in a make-believe world and use make-believe courts to justify their way of living. Imagine such if 95% of the people driving cars didn't have a drivers license. I have a drivers license. I thought it was easy-peasy to get it. My car registration is a different story. I sure wish I didn't have to register it and pay taxes on it every year. Ditto for that expensive insurance I carry.
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bradley6874
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 1:40pm |
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Here in md you can tag a vehicle for whatever weight yo want just pay the gov but the scale dot guys go by weight rating on the vehicle to determine if CDL is required. Also any vehicle rated 10001 or more requires a dot card including farm tags
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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TREVMAN
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 2:24pm |
When I wanted to haul my Gleaner E home 200 miles, I called our DOT. The guy I talked to was thrilled. He said people haul all kinds of stuff in all kinds of ways, none of it good. Ive been there. I gotta a buddy who would have put my E on a trailer that I wouldnt haul a lawnmower on. And IF he tied it down, he would use electric extension cords. He seems to think he is some kind of outlaw or something. Anyhow, the DOT guy emailed me a FREE permit with oversize for one year. He emailed me all regulations relevant. He emailed me detailed info on proper signage, lighting, gvw, tires etc, etc. He said if you have trouble have the RCMP call him...I got the impression the guy was sitting by the phone bored out his mind waiting for someone to talk to. By the way, on the trip, the RCMP passed me, were beside me briefly, WAVED and took off. I strongly urge anyone starting out with hauling contact their DOT. Then you get it from the source, and you shouldnt have any trouble on the road. Meanwhile my buddy"s response to "what if there is an accident?", is insurance will pay for it...Insurance does not pay for negligence or stupidity. Just my humble opinion, good luck, Trev.
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 6:42pm |
Ted J wrote:
DennisA (IL) wrote:
In 2000 the supreme court ruled that the states can not make you get a drivers license or register your vehicles as long as you don't use your vehicles for commerce. They also went on to say that you should only be detained for around 20mins if stopped. |
This is NOT true Dennis. See here:
http://www.snopes.com/supreme-court-rules-drivers-licenses-unnecessary/
Sorry.....
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No sorry needed. I find it interesting that when I state a fact like pulling a 5 bottom plow with a D-17 the naysayers start replying almost immediately. But when I stated no license is required I had to post it twice and wait over 24hrs before it was challenged. I find little things like this interesting. I know I'm weird.
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Dennis
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