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9GRANDKIDS 
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Location: Iowa
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 Topic: Hand Clutch issue?
Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 6:23am |
My WD has been working fine - hand clutch still snaps when engaging/disengaging and didn't seem to slip at all. There was no noise ( didn't hear anything break, no grinding).
Here is what I've checked or looked at -
PTO still works fine Hydraulics work fine. Looked in engine clutch inspection... not sure what to look for, but looks clean and new. Removed battery box and hand clutch cover - LOW on fluid. Clutch plates look to be tight when hand clutch handle pulled back - rocked tractor back and forth - could see shaft to rear differential turning, but no part of hand clutch moved. Ran engine briefly to ensure the hand clutch housing and clutch pack spun with engine.
It's been a couple of weeks since I looked at it, but I will drag it into the shop today. To get my head on straight... it seems that the hand clutch works by it being permanently attached on the engine side shaft, the housing bridges over the rear-end side shaft, but that is a bearing or has clearance . When you pull the hand clutch lever back the clutch plates have splines so as long as they have enough pressure and splines are intact that is where the power transfer through. (is that pretty much correct?)
So after looking at the items above I did fill the fluid and really didn't do anything else. I've heard there are shims that can be removed, and I am pretty mechanical, but before I just start throwing wrenches or split the tractor thought it might be smart to learn from the wisdom of others first.
Other info - not sure if relevant...
I adjusted my brakes a couple of months ago... and don't think this has anything to do with it as I jacked the tractor to make sure there wasn't drag when not braking.
All thoughts/ info appreciated. Thanks for reading.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 7:05am |
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9grandkids,
First welcome to the forum. Folks will be along shortly to help.
Maybe I missed it?? What is the WD hand clutch issue? Sounds like you have done a pretty thorough investigation. Some picture may help.
The power should be directed through the clutch discs I believe? Low oil level may make the clutch not preform as desired? But that said I acquired one that was pretty low and it worked but had worn out the brass collar due to lack of oil.
BTW I only have 6 grandkids. But do have one great grand son!:)
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 7:05am |
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You are correct in your assessment. The outer portion of the and clutch housing is connected to the engine. The inner discs (2 or 3 disc depending on tractor age) are splined and turn the transmissions input shaft. I've never seen clutch disc spline failure. The "snap" of the hand clutch might be too soft and not strong enough to drive the tractor. There are three stacks of shims that could be thinned up a bit to tighten up the snap pressure. Takes a 1/2" wrench to loosen and retighten 6 bolts. Shims are laminated together---peel them off one-by-one. You could also lock the foot clutch ahead for further testing.
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MACK
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 7:11am |
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Spider gear pin fell out. MACK
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:10am |
So... I just removed 1 shim from each of the 3 connection points between the from and rear halves of the hand clutch housing. These shims are thin - so the tolerances are pretty tight on these apparently. (I thought I only had 1 shim in there but looks like I have 4 or 5.
That didn't help.
I did notice that with the hand clutch handle forward that I can spin the slotted clutch plates - didn't know if that was normal and seems odd since they have splines in their hubs.
This is a 2 plate system ( not the newer 3 plate pack that I think is found more on the WD45 ) .
Another possible important factor - WD has a loader and I was using it at the time. Usually loaders add more wear and tear.
I'll post pics once I figure out how...
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:20am |
On the spider pin... isn't that in the differential? When I rock the tractor I can see the shaft coming into the rear of the hand clutch assembly move so i thought I was ruling out rear end and transmission issues.
I can also feel/hear the transmission if I shift gears. The movement all feels normal there.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:48am |
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Jack one rear wheel off of the ground and rotate it. This will determine if the spider pin is in place. With foot clutch NOT LOCKED forward, hand clutch engaged and transmission in any gear, you shouldn't be able to rotate the rear wheel.
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 10:06am |
Hopefully I'm not being dense here, but I think I have figured it out. (with help -thanks guys)
I did as stated , jacked up a wheel, etc. I CAN rotate the wheel, but I noticed with the hand clutch level back it has a rubbing sound when the wheel is turning.
As I look at the hand clutch I see the health splines that I believe are on the clutch disc. (I can see why those don't shell out!) But what I also see is that it looks like there are 5 or 6 rivets holding that hub to the plate. Well, more accurately I see what looks like 1 rivet head and 4 or 5 holes that could have rivets to hold the hub to the plate.
Looks to me like I some how sheared those rivets or they rusted out and there is just 1 head left to drop into the PTO gear below.
That might also explain why I can slide the plates around if they aren't supposed to slide. Does this sound reasonable?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 10:39am |
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When the clutch is released (lever forward) the discs should be able to slide back and forth on the splines, yes. I've never seen rivet/hub failure, but that is certainly possible.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 10:40am |
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If so, that means a split of the rear end from the torque tube to repair it.
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Chris (swIA)
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 10:57am |
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I have seen a rivet/ hub failure in my WD. The hand clutch slipped when plowing so I split it expecting the plates to be shot. I found the rivets securing the splined hub to 1 of the plates were sheared off. I bolted the hub on to the plates with 1/4-20 bolts and reassembled. It has been fine ever since.
Edited by Chris (swIA) - 16 Oct 2016 at 10:59am
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Chris (swIA)
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 11:13am |
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I did have grind the bolt heads some for clearance when putting it back together.
Edited by Chris (swIA) - 16 Oct 2016 at 11:14am
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 11:56am |
I have seen some clutch plates with loose and worn rivets, and I would certainly think shearing the rivets would be possible. If you have not split the tractor between the tranny and torque tube before, this link will help: http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81694&title=how-to-change-a-wd-hand-cluth
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A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287
KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY
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Rick
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 12:14pm |
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I have also seen many CA hand clutch discs that had the splines down to about 1/32"! Now that's getting thin and would have shelled very soon, had they not been taken apart and fixed. Also, like a few have mentioned, I've seen the hand clutch disc hubs in the WD/WD45 come loose or shear as well. I can honestly say though that I've never seen one of those splined hubs wear much in those clutch units. Rick
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 12:25pm |
I'm pretty sure I am right... considering what some of you have posted about rivets. (thanks)
I've started to split the tractor. Flexed my breaker bar pretty good and only got 1 of the rail bolts out so I think I'll get a 1 inch impact socket. I need some threaded rod or long bolts to split it anyway.
Edited by 9GRANDKIDS - 16 Oct 2016 at 12:26pm
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 4:01pm |
Got 3 of the rail bolts out/loose and unhooked all the linkages, rams, pto, etc. 1 rail bolt really stubborn ... and I don't have access to a torch.
edit -
Where there's a will... put a box wrench level with the floor and pushed on it using a chuck of 2x4 on top of the floor jack.
Edited by 9GRANDKIDS - 16 Oct 2016 at 5:18pm
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 8:43pm |
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Nice job getting started splitting the tractor! Be safe! Post some pictures for us too!
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:00pm |
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I like the threaded rod idea.
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:03pm |
All - after puling the hand clutch... yeah, a pile of sheared in 1/2 rivets in the bottom when I wiped out the housing.
Hey Chris in SWIA -
I have the 1/4 x 20 hardware on the shelf - did you throw in a lock washer or use lock nuts or locktite? I forgot to look at the clearance issues and if only on 1 side, etc.
It should be easy enough to figure out, but if you have any pointers I'd be happy to learn from your experience. - Thanks.
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9GRANDKIDS
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 9:21pm |
Sugarmaker -
I haven't figured out how to post pics, but the thread....
How to change a WD hand cluth
has some good shots.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 10:12pm |
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the hub is shouldered in the disc.I would pound new rivets.You totally fill the holes.
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Chris (swIA)
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Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 6:28am |
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I remember using lock nuts on it. I don't remember if both sides had to be thinned down or just one. That was 15 years ago or so but still holding strong.
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