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Ken in Texas 
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 Topic: 42 Millitary Issue B
Posted: 21 Sep 2009 at 6:56am |
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 21 Sep 2009 at 9:24am |
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 7:57am |
sorry . No pix yet. Jim is still collecting pieces of Bs for this project.
Collecting hard data for this project is as hard as collecting parts . The only refrence found so far for a purchase of AC Bs by the goverment is 98 Allis Chalmers light wheeled tractors, M3 in 1940. This refrence does not specifically mention Model B.
The War Department technical manual TM 9-782, dated June 12 1942, refers to, Tractor, Light, wheeled, Industrial type (A-C Model B) Were the 98 light wheeled tractors purchased in 1940 Bs ? Were they the only B Models purchased by the government between 1940 and 1945? Was the 1942 dated TM 9-782, manual covering information only for the 98 B Tractors purchased in 1940. The jury is still out.
Other data on sales of AC Bs to the government will have to come from Allis Chalmers Archives. Does anyone on this site have any information they would care to share with Jim on the subject of AC Bs purchased by the government? Felony acalcerosis bilinear copaline fornication pyrochemical reward elaborated splined inconsolable metamer degradation denumerant. Downshaft ricinelaidin cryoprotective unwomanly upwind clearway overreact responsibility dampness? vermox propranolol inoxidize triamcinolone hytrin
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 3:07pm |
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 3:39pm |
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 3:41pm |
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Rick of HopeIN
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 5:34pm |
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morton(pa)
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 7:40pm |
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 8:46pm |
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 9:15am |
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morton(pa)
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Posted: 31 Jan 2010 at 11:18pm |
I am going to re-vamp this thread after something I found while looking at things on e-bay this evening. I would have assumed it was just an early IB manual, BUT it is stamped War Department at the top. Somebody snag this thing up and tell me what is on the inside!!! Check it out and tell me what you think:
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outlook6
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Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 2:25pm |
Morton,
You are correct, that is the original WWII army manual for the AC B. Base on some searching I've done it is the only manual issued by the Army for the model B. The ORD 9-SNL G-94 (which would have been the Ordnance Dept. complete parts list) apparently was never issued. At least neither the National Archives, the US Military History Insitute , or any other museum archives I've contacted have any indication that it was ever published. There was a change notice, "TM 9-782 C. 1" that was issued by the War Dept. on Dec. 30, 1942. These are the only official two documents I've been able to find.
There is a Dec. 1945 Ordnance Dept. summary report showing total acceptances of all vehicles (tanks, trucks, cars, trailers, tractors, etc.) accepted 1940 thru 1945. It indicates 96 ea. "Tractor, wheeled, light, M3" were delivered by Allis Chalmers in 1940. The report does not indicate what the AC model number was. The contract number and production order number were both listed in the report. When I searched the National Archives for these two documents, I was told that it was standard practice for the Army to destroy contract records once the contract was successfully completed, thus they no longer existed.
The National Archives suggested I contact the manufacturer to see if they still had any records. But I'm unaware that any of the Allis Chalmers manufacturing records still exist and even if they do, would they be searchable?
Since the only summary report of acceptances I have obtained is from the Ordnance Dept. It is my hunch (only a hunch) that only 96 model B's were purchased by the Ordnance Dept. However, more could have been procured by other branches of the War Dept., Quartermaster Corps, US Army Air Force, etc., or even the Navy Dept.
Anyhow that's just my two cents worth. Best regards, Jim
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Jacob (WI,ND)
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Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 9:43pm |
I find this project VERY interesting too! PLEASE get pics and all the info you can to share when the time comes!!
I being one that is restoring a 1956 Chevy pickup that was originally made for the NAVY, I know how frustrating it can be to find info on these old government things. There are basically no records. And if there are anywhere by some slim chance, they are stashed away in some dusty corner where no one can access them, or even know about them.
Good luck!
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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outlook6
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 12:57pm |
Other than the TM 9-782 manual the only other WWII document I've come across that references the model B is a report issued by the Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey, February 18, 1943. The Raritan Arsenal noted on the cover page "that this is not an official War Department publication". This document is nothing more than a photo album of Ordance items Group A through Group G. (Group G is for all combat vehicles, trucks, tractors, and trailers, etc.)
The one referenced page to the Allis Chalmers B is attached below. In this book there are 3 Allis Chalmers track laying tractors out of 16 listed but the B is the only wheeled tractor in the book. Other than the legend under the image there is no other information provided by the authors.
Jim
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 1:43pm |
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It was a search to find the IB pintle hitches, I can't even imagine what it would take to find the one pictured above.... Wish there was a rear and front view of this tractor, can't wait to see your repro Jim. Keep us posted.
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gary ny
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 2:14pm |
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I wonder what the thing is on the steering colum
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 3:45pm |
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gary,it might be a fire extinguisher. Why is the hand crank not engaged in the holder?
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Denis in MI
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 4:06pm |
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Why don't they just put a starter in the mounting hole
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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outlook6
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 4:16pm |
Glenn, I have a pintle hook from an Allis Chalmers M-7 Snow Tractor that I plan on using until I can I find one like the one in the image. My guess is that the one in the image was used on some other WWII vehicle as well and perusing the ORD 9 SNL's of various trucks and high speed tractors would find it. The nice thing about the ORD 9's is that they provide the ordnance part number as well as the manufacturer's part number, and in many cases illustrations or photos. That's why it's a shame that the ORD 9 for the B apparently was never published.
Gary, The thing on the steering column is a fire extinguisher, the same as used in the cabs of other military vehicles during WWII. The one in the image is a Fyr Fyter brand (flat ends). Another type was the Pyrene style with convex ends. Image attached. (Fyr Fyter image I borrowed off the G503 website.)
Regards, Jim
Edited by outlook6 - 02 Feb 2010 at 4:18pm
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mark/indiana
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 7:59pm |
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Howdy....that is probably a pretty standard military spec. pintle hook like we still use today...and the steering wheel deal is either a forms holder ( a military must have) or the extinquisher as suggested...Mark/Indiana and USAF retired..
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mark/indiana..."My favorite Allis Tractor or Crawler is the one I'm sitting on at the time!!..
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GlenninPA
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 8:04pm |
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There must be a lot of those M7 pintle hooks floating around out there.
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 8:17pm |
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That's a pretty funky grille guard. Is there an available pic of the tractor from the front? I'd like to see what that looks like.
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RyanTN
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 8:25pm |
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Tucker's question about the crank not seated got me wondering. Do you think the crank would need to be longer than standard to clear the push grill?
Edited by RyanTN - 02 Feb 2010 at 8:44pm
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 8:32pm |
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Ryan, I'll bet you're right. Ya gotta love military specs.
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outlook6
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:02pm |
Here's the only frontal view of the military version in the manual. Interestingly, there are only two pictures of the military version in the manual. All the rest are of the standard civilian model. Regards,
Jim
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:09pm |
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Thank you, Outlook. I really wanted to see what the grille guard looked like from the front. Great pics to archive.
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Alberta Phil
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:19pm |
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Hardest thing to find for the repro is going to be a set of rear tires with that tread pattern!!
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morton(pa)
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:31pm |
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Oddly enough I think I saw a tread like that in a catalog one time. Glad I sparked new debate and information on the topic! This one always fascinated me as it combines the 2 biggest hobbies of mine. Tractors and WWII. This pintle hitch thing sure has got me wondering too. I remember seeing a back corner view of it one time. I wish I saved that picture but I didn't. It showed the pintle hitch mounted on the regular drawbar somehow I think. Does anyone have that picture?
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DREAM
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:38pm |
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I was looking at the manual. The quarter rear view is bad quality, but it looks like the pintle hitch is mounted at the bottom to the standard draw bar, and has two braces from the top, maybe under the seat/fender bracket rails. I couldn't make much of it.
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RyanTN
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Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:38pm |
There is a picture of the pintle on page five (or nine) of the Technical Manual listed above. Here is a link you can follow to that manual. It is a copy of a copy, so quality is not that great.
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