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Thad in AR. 
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 Topic: Hunting a Bridgeport or equivalent
Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 5:40am |
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Vertical mill.
Not in a hurry.
I’m looking at an Excello that’s a long drive from here. A few pop up now and then but priced high.
I’m waiting to get a price on a Bridgeport right after Christmas that’s dependent on their house selling.
What do they bring in your area?
Any pointers welcome.
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thendrix
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Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:05am |
Bridgeport is a fine machine and probably the most common. Laguna, Cincinnati, Seiki or most any combination of Seiki is a good machine. I would stay away from Enco. They're usually the cheapest and there are reasons why they're the cheapest. Most people steer towards a series 1 machine but don't count out a series 2. You lose the "J" head but you almost double the size of the machine. I like the old saying "you can make little parts on a big machine but you can't make big parts on a little machine". One shop I worked in had a Kent. It's a Bridgeport copy, which most are. It was a little cheaper machine but it did everything we needed. If it were me I'd go after a vari-drive machine rather than a pulley drive. I'm my opinion, pulley drive machines just don't have enough options for speed range. Power feed on the table is handy but not a requirement. https://machineinventory.shop/Check these guys out. They're a long way from you but might give you an idea of pricing.
Edited by thendrix - 13 Dec 2022 at 6:09am
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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B26240
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Location: mn
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:10am |
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Interplant sales in Hugo MN always has some for sale to give you a idea of price. About 10 years ago I bought a used Jet 9x42 from local machne shop, there machinest wanted them to buy a Bridgeport. Before that all the BP's I looked at were in poor condition My advice is don't buy one that is all worn out, I believe mine is worth more now than when I bought it.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:22am |
 thendrix wrote:
Bridgeport is a fine machine and probably the most common. Laguna, Cincinnati, Seiki or most any combination of Seiki is a good machine. I would stay away from Enco. They're usually the cheapest and there are reasons why they're the cheapest. Most people steer towards a series 1 machine but don't count out a series 2. You lose the "J" head but you almost double the size of the machine. I like the old saying "you can make little parts on a big machine but you can't make big parts on a little machine". One shop I worked in had a Kent. It's a Bridgeport copy, which most are. It was a little cheaper machine but it did everything we needed. If it were me I'd go after a vari-drive machine rather than a pulley drive. I'm my opinion, pulley drive machines just don't have enough options for speed range. Power feed on the table is handy but not a requirement.
https://machineinventory.shop/
Check these guys out. They're a long way from you but might give you an idea of pricing. |
Thanks Tyler. Those reconditioned mills sure look good and not priced all that bad. I’m gonna call and ask questions. Have you heard of Excello says XLO on the head? I believe Canadian??? There is one within a couple hours of here. Is that something I should stay away from?
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DMiller
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:35am |
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I bought what could afford in 240v single phase and new. Used Bridgeports here or equivalent makes from industrial users are nearly all 3 phase with pricing well out past the Asian new machines.
Is a reason for that and I deal with it on both my lathe and mill as both are overseas builds. A great lathe or mill you can keep under half a thousandth tolerance, exceptionally tight, consistent and smooth. The Asian counterparts will only maintain 5 thousandths or .005 tolerance if lucky over the course of a few years. Other factors include how solidly base is set, how well the setting is performed to get machine flat and square, then tooling materials and holders all have contributing factors.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:44am |
Last vertical milling machine I was involved in buying was a little over $300,000 with freight and tooling. Probably a little over your price range? 
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 7:01am |
DMiller wrote:
I bought what could afford in 240v single phase and new. Used Bridgeports here or equivalent makes from industrial users are nearly all 3 phase with pricing well out past the Asian new machines.
Is a reason for that and I deal with it on both my lathe and mill as both are overseas builds. A great lathe or mill you can keep under half a thousandth tolerance, exceptionally tight, consistent and smooth. The Asian counterparts will only maintain 5 thousandths or .005 tolerance if lucky over the course of a few years. Other factors include how solidly base is set, how well the setting is performed to get machine flat and square, then tooling materials and holders all have contributing factors. |
Have a lead on a phase converter locally. Not sure what it is yet. Have a friend with a big machine shop near here. He says it’s what I want. I’ll post when I have more information. I know nothing about them.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 8:25am |
My dad bought an ENCO and tools in 1975. Made a heavy duty steel base with drawers inside. It was out of ALIGN as Dave said.. Had to shim and machine the column fit to the base...
He died about 1980 and i ended up with the mill. I use it 3-4 times a year, not much. Runs great for what i need.. Used it to cut keyway in a couple 1.5 inch pump shafts last week. I have a 16 inch drill press and drills up to 1 inch. Needed a 1.25 inch hole in a 1 inch plate.. Used the mill to finish off the plate with the oversize hole... Does everything i need. .............. $300,000. ?? I think he paid $600.  |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 8:40am |
Yeah, but yours won't do everything I need, while mine would do everything you need!
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thendrix
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 8:52am |
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Never seen an Excello in person. Just pictures so I can't really comment on them. Someone mentioned Jet machines. I believe they're a fair home machine but I want to say they weren't built as heavy as they could've been. For a home machine, make sure you have an R8 or an R40 spindle. R8 is most common on manual mills and collets usually go up to 3/4 if I remember right. Might be 1". You can also get solid tool holders with R8 shanks but when using a tool holder you lose some rigidity. If you start to look into a series 2 (larger) machine I believe they have the R40 spindles. Big things to look at are things like backlash in the ways. All mills will have some. Use a travel dial on a mag base. Dial the table in .100 or so then move the other direction and watch the dial on the handle. .010 to .020 I wouldn't be upset with. .030 you'd probably still be ok for home use. More than that I'd be leary. Other than that look at the general condition. Kinda like buying a used car. If it's nasty, greasy, rusty, noisy, and hard to move, it's probably lived a pretty hard life.
When you set your machine, make sure it's not on a seam in the concrete and if you have a thicker section in your floor that would be a better place. Due to the vibration being transferred to the floor it can cause cracks. Most floors are 4" which is fine I think for home shops. CNC manufacturers won't usually set machines on less than 6".
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 9:48pm |
Getting a good mill is partly a case of 'right place/right time', and also, knowing what's good, bad, and ugly. Even a sloppy machine, at a good price, is a good deal. If you start with a sloppy lathe, and a sloppy mill, you can use the lathe and mill to make parts to temporary tighten themselves up, and then use the temporarily-improved setup, to make precise parts that'll be more permanent.
My smallest vertical mill is a Bridgeport, fairly short travel on both axis, with a J-head, it originally came to me from the Rock Island Arsenal for $500, fitted with an "M" head, which had a Morse #2 Drawbar spindle and no backgear, so essentially, it was a drill-press.
I acquired a Johannsen radial drill fitted with a J-head from an industrial auction for $400, brought it home, and removed the J-head to the Bridgeport, and sold the M head. Soon after, I acquired another J-head that had been through a hurricane, stripped of some of it's not-so-critical downfeed parts, gave it a complete dismantling, clean up, rebuild, and installed that on my radial drill.
One can easily make a rotary converter out of a discarded 3-phase motor about half-again larger than your machine's main motor... you can build it super-simple (a 3-phase hand switch, and an old 3ph motor, and about two feet of string) or you can make it fancy, self-starting, fault protected, etc).
Or you can find a VFD that will accept single phase 240v in, and give you three phase out. I bought a bunch of Allen Bradley 1305 and 1336's on a pallet for $100 or so about ten years ago, and that's what my machines run on... My Monarch 10EE runs an Allis Chalmers 7.5hp motor (toothed belt drive to the spindle, 4:1 reduction) using a 460V wiring configuration, driven by a 480v A-B 1336F drive, that is fed 480v single phase from a 7.5kva dry transformer wired BACKWARDS (240v in = 480v out), and it works wonderfully.
Both the Bridgeport vertical mill, AND the J-headed Johannsen have 3-phase motors which are powered by Variable Frequency Drives that are fed 240v single phase. The unmodified J-head (on the BRJ) uses it's standard step pullies which are basically permanently placed in the center position, and all spindle speed is controlled by the VFD. The J-head on the Johannsen is driven by a Gates Polychain 3.5:1 reduction from a 1800rpm 3hp motor. BOTH VFDs are programmed to go from 5 to over 200hz, and neither have any difficulty working at any loadpoint.
Both my BRJ's run R8 taper, and I have some tooling that is dedicated on R8 shanks, while other tooling is on 3/4" that get fitted into R8 collets as needed.
The bigger mill is a Maho MH600 universal, with a CAT40 taper and Phillips 432 controls with INDRAMAT drives. Aged, but still very operationally effective.
The biggest, is a Cinci #5, and it will NOT sit on a 6" floor. IIRC, it runs a 30hp motor... around 13,000lbs. I haven't made it a suitable working position YET, partly due to foundation situation, but even moreso, something this large means you have to be able to move large parts ONTO and OFF OF it, and I don't have a suitably-strong floor onto which the forklift will safely maneuver. Fortunately, I haven't needed to chew anything that big. Once I get it settled in, I'm certain I'll be decking blocks and milling heads.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 9:52pm |
Well, isn't the internet great,,,?? I finished reading Tyler's post and behold,,right after the post,,,there pops up a 1/2 page ad for a real purdy LeBlond lathe,,which I have used before,,,,  I kinda pulled off my "back yard" Mill project because of another priority project. I could use a bigger lathe ,,,and,,,,,a bigger Mill but then I'd have to add on to my shop,,,,so I better look the other way,,,,, Hey Thad, I just remembered,,there was a good lookin Bridgeport on the Marketplace some time back for $4500,,,,I DID quickly did look away,,,,,
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 11:44pm |
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I have an Excello- XLO and a Bridgeport vertical mill. The Excello- XLO is a much heavy and smoother machine. Made in Canada. Index, Gorton, South Bend also made a good vertical mill also. Bunch of good machines and lots of junk too! HTH, Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 6:04am |
Tracy Martin TN wrote:
I have an Excello- XLO and a Bridgeport vertical mill. The Excello- XLO is a much heavy and smoother machine. Made in Canada. Index, Gorton, South Bend also made a good vertical mill also. Bunch of good machines and lots of junk too! HTH, Tracy |
It does help Tracy. I’ve found an XLO a couple hours from home and at a very good price. Appears to have sat idle for quite some time but clean. I found a very good looking Bridgeport J head with added power feeds and a dro. It comes with a neat power converter. He wants me to make an offer. It won’t be cheap. Very clean and close to home.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 6:10am |
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I’m also waiting til after Christmas to hear about another Bridgeport. Don’t know what size/model it is or anything about it yet not that it was bought at a school auction and just been stored since. The homeowner sold the place and it will need to be moved after the first of the year.
It belongs to the family of a coworker and he’s going home at Christmas to get pics and a price.
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Ken(MI)
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Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 4:01pm |
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The Excello is a far superior machine to a Bridgeport, and so are Cincinnati Toolmasters and Index mills, variable speed heads are a money pit in any of them, if it makes any noises like rattles and grinding, run, don't walk away unless you are ready for an expensive and time intensive excercise in frustration. My first mill was a 1966 Bridgeport with a J head and I still own it going on 43 years now. Personally I would go with a step pulley machine and put a quality VFD on it for personal use. The last time I had a variable speed head that needed attention, I bought a new Acer Electronic variable speed head and put the Bridgeport head out to pasture, $4000.00 and an hour to install it. Bridgeport went through a lot of ups and downs over the years and quality varied greatly. Steer clear of the Textron machines, the best were the machines built from early 60s through mid 70s with Tibon hard chrome ways, and again in the mid 80s through the 90s. 1975 to 1985 were the worst, they couldn't build them fast enough and quality suffered greatly.
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