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Original One-Eighty 4-cylinder gas tractors

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DrAllis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 7:11pm
The story goes that in mid-1967 A-C built about 100 new One-Eighty gas tractors with the G-226 engine running at 2,200 RPM high idle. Problems arose when customers started complaining about excessive engine vibrations. As per Norm Swinford's book ( page 109)  the platform vibration would put the operators feet to sleep. The original test tractor (only one) was retested and it was acceptable in the area of complaint. Some of you are aware that my project tractor for this past fall/winter has been installing a One-Eighty platform/seat frame/brake/clutch pedals on an early One-Seventy gas.  Raising the deck up approx 9 inches makes this tractor really nice to drive !!  But, I can assure you, this platform conversion project has re-produced the same annoying platform vibrations that were experienced in 1967. It took a little engineering and thinking of how to deal with this problem, but in the end, I didn't have to switch to a different engine !! The solution was really quite simple: #1. make rubber stops for the clutch and brake pedals, so they didn't sit there and vibrate against the platforms at high idle, and #2. place rubber edging strips on top of the battery box so the left platform wasn't resting on bare steel, again causing engine vibrations to be amplified to an annoying level.  This tractor is now smooooth and a real joy to operate, even at 2,200 RPM's.  Why did the original tractor not bother ??  I've seen that particular tractor back when the Deutz buy-out happened. I remember the fenders not being "production" pieces. The press-brake bends were tighter and clearly a proto-type build. I can only assume the platform pieces and battery box were the same way, not exactly production pieces and maybe even a gauge heavier material. So, 55 years later, I think I've figured out what went wrong for A-C on this model. The engine wasn't really that bad, it's just the way they built the platform made a little problem into a BIG problem. So, anyone who wants to build a "high-deck" One-Seventy, be prepared for what you may have to deal with.
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Darb210 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darb210 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 7:34pm
great post Doc!!  I always thought the 170/175 would be much more pleasant to operate if i didn't seem to sit "down in" between the fenders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 7:39pm
You cannot believe the visibility !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 8:02pm
All the 100 series should have been built like the 190. The view of the field was one of the best selling points.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 8:16pm
190's do have a great view! I still prefer my 220.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

The story goes that in mid-1967 A-C built about 100 new One-Eighty gas tractors with the G-226 engine running at 2,200 RPM high idle. Problems arose when customers started complaining about excessive engine vibrations. As per Norm Swinford's book ( page 109)  the platform vibration would put the operators feet to sleep. The original test tractor (only one) was retested and it was acceptable in the area of complaint. Some of you are aware that my project tractor for this past fall/winter has been installing a One-Eighty platform/seat frame/brake/clutch pedals on an early One-Seventy gas.  Raising the deck up approx 9 inches makes this tractor really nice to drive !!  But, I can assure you, this platform conversion project has re-produced the same annoying platform vibrations that were experienced in 1967. It took a little engineering and thinking of how to deal with this problem, but in the end, I didn't have to switch to a different engine !! The solution was really quite simple: #1. make rubber stops for the clutch and brake pedals, so they didn't sit there and vibrate against the platforms at high idle, and #2. place rubber edging strips on top of the battery box so the left platform wasn't resting on bare steel, again causing engine vibrations to be amplified to an annoying level.  This tractor is now smooooth and a real joy to operate, even at 2,200 RPM's.  Why did the original tractor not bother ??  I've seen that particular tractor back when the Deutz buy-out happened. I remember the fenders not being "production" pieces. The press-brake bends were tighter and clearly a proto-type build. I can only assume the platform pieces and battery box were the same way, not exactly production pieces and maybe even a gauge heavier material. So, 55 years later, I think I've figured out what went wrong for A-C on this model. The engine wasn't really that bad, it's just the way they built the platform made a little problem into a BIG problem. So, anyone who wants to build a "high-deck" One-Seventy, be prepared for what you may have to deal with.


Hey Dr Allis, while I didn't do a whole lot of farming growing up, plus the owner of the farm only used (UMMmm, gasp),,,Jone Deere's,,,the 200 has always been my favorite because of it's Powerful stance, with the 170 a close second.
 The "engineer" in me has always had lots of respect and admiration for someone that will work on  the OEM product design ta make it better than new by addressing it's shortcomings and working towards that end. A Great job well done Sir,,,,,,,,!!!!!!ClapClap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 8:45pm
I have encountered a similar experience.  I grew up on my grandfather's 175 (with the standard platform).  I spent many hours over many years discing and cultivating at around 1800 rpm.  I never noticed any vibration
In 2015 I took the tractor completely apart to restore - including the platform steps.  After it was painted and reassembled, the platform steps do have a very noticeable vibration to them when going down the road.  All the bolts are good and tight.  Maybe too tight?
Just wondering what would cause them to vibrate now.

Thanks!

PS, I would also agree that this tractor should have had a raised platform from the factory.  Sitting down low makes it hard to see over those big flat fenders.  The 185 is far superior in that respect!
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 8:52pm
I'm sure glad they switched to the 301. That 4cylinder is a great engine but a little short in a 180.                         MACK


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 9:30pm
I agree, Mack. Always thought the G-262 from the D19 or the G2500/265 would have been much more competitive than the G-226.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 7:21am
So this would explain why the 226 was successful in the limited run of gas 175's. I also feel if the 226 had been the production gas engine for the 180, it would have had reliability problems. In that time the 180 was still many farmer's big tractor. By the gas 175 nearly a decade later, it was a chore tractor mainly. I'm sure a few still made it their big horse, but they were likely replacing a WD45, or D17. Could you imagine a 226 gas 180 being sold with a 4-16 plow lol!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 7:52am
I'm reasonably certain the 1967 One-Eighty G-226 was the exact same engine as the later model 1975 model 175 tractor (camshaft change, 8.25 to 1 compression and larger carburetor). The One-Eighty ran at 2,200 RPM while the 175 ran at 2,000 RPM with the old low down pretty solid platform. The 175 was officially rated at (almost) 61 PTO HP and when you increase the engines RPM's by another 200, that number would have fallen right into that 64 PTO HP range, which is exactly what they were shooting for. Engine life would have been less than before, probably 3,000 hr average to Ohaul. But, Deere was marketing their 3020 with 227 cubes and 2500 RPM speeds and I know it was fairly short lived. I never knew of one that made it to 3,000 hrs to Ohaul. The G-226 in the One-Eighty required some differences over the diesel chassis. The hydraulic pump was crank pulley driven and located under the radiator. This then required different hydraulic lines and a shaft/coupler drive and a mount built into the front support. Save money on the engine, but then spend $$$$$ to complete the hydraulic system. I kind of thought they should have stayed with the One-Seventy side hydraulic pump system. Then, the One-Eighty chassis would have been the same gas or deezel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dennis(IA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 9:01am
The Deere 227 engine had balancing shafts so they could run at 2500 rpm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 9:22am
Yes, but the overall performance and short engine life wasn't anything for them to crow about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dennis(IA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 10:16am
And, I always thought about how much fuel that engine must have used at that rpm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex09(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by DSeries4 DSeries4 wrote:

I have encountered a similar experience.  I grew up on my grandfather's 175 (with the standard platform).  I spent many hours over many years discing and cultivating at around 1800 rpm.  I never noticed any vibration
In 2015 I took the tractor completely apart to restore - including the platform steps.  After it was painted and reassembled, the platform steps do have a very noticeable vibration to them when going down the road.  All the bolts are good and tight.  Maybe too tight?
Just wondering what would cause them to vibrate now.

Thanks!

PS, I would also agree that this tractor should have had a raised platform from the factory.  Sitting down low makes it hard to see over those big flat fenders.  The 185 is far superior in that respect!


REGARDING THE platform vibration issue, you should check the RH footplate to make sure you have the updated bolt described below. My own 170 has the wrong carriage head bolt and the RH footplate does vibrate at certain rpms.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 8:04pm
Might make a difference, but that bolt made the brake latch work better. That was the intent of the design. It kept the platform from flexing when locking the brakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex09(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 8:19pm
Also cool mod with the high deck 170!! Did you add an extra step on the left to compensate for the higher platform? Did you go with the 180 seat suspension? I would think the steering wheel would be a bit low after upgrading to the "high deck" also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 10:09pm
Battery box, platforms, clutch/brake pedals and total seat suspension and seat track all 180 parts. I moved the steering column up 5 or 6 inches and remade the instrument panel to accommodate that change. I added on to the OEM battery box step. Power Director lever linkage all fabbed to work around the brake pedals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 10:28pm
I'm hoping we will get pictures when done kinda like the D17XT....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 10:34pm
I need to do that. Need some family help to put them all together. Need a warm sun-shinny weekend to take a few more pics of the Power Director linkage and maybe a drive-by video. Plan on some plowing this spring so a video will be in order for that too. I can see getting hooked on to the square baler this summer and being able to see the windrow going into the pickup !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 9:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 4:17am
.

Looks like some nice work on that tractor.


When I was at GM in the early 90s we got in an early Lexus for competitive assessment -- you may remember the commercials of the car running at highway speed on a dyno with a stack of wine glasses on the hood, showing how smooth the car ran. We put it up on the hoist to look at the steering and suspension system and there were mass dampers hung off two dozen places to remove vibrations. When fuel economy targets mandate pulling as much weight as possible from a vehicle it was surprising to see one and two pound blocks hanging under that car. But they removed the shakes.

And that's the trick -- adding mass or changing spring rates of vibrating parts can smooth them all out. Spring rate changes are hard while mass is easy for a band-aid.

You changed the spring rates and added rubber appropriately to shift resonance to some other frequency outside of the normal operating range where it would have been an issue. AC could have used those changes back then to avoid the problem.

.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 2:40pm
DrAllis, thanks for sharing your AC One-Seventy project's solutions. Good findings on the vibrations & isolation remedies. I imagine that beyond your additional rubber mounts, rubber hydraulic hose extensions, etc, the raised operator seat might be the better remedy?  Anytime I ran the D17 or the One-Seventy, their lower seat position seemed to place my ears at the worst noise height, being center proximity to the transmission sounds & resonation from it's rear wheel fender's vibrations. Anytime a hand would be placed onto those fenders, the tiring vibration could immediately be felt. It's raised position's visibility is a great plus too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 3:19pm
Raised operator location (thru the battery box and both platforms) seems to have made engine vibrations much more noticeable. Not because it is raised up 9 inches, but because of the way the parts were built and mounted. Then, I increased the top engine speed to 2200 RPM , which made those vibrations even worse. The rubberized fender mounting was two-fold: #1. to quiet down the ring and pinion howl when roading (imagine 70 miles of rear end howl on a typical tractor ride event) and #2. to hopefully reduce any engine vibration being amplified by the large fenders. It seems to have accomplished what was intended.  You can run this tractor at full throttle down the road and rear end noise is quiet and your feet and hands are not annoyed with excessive vibration of any kind. And the view is soooo nice sitting up higher !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 3:41pm
Too bad they didn’t see fit to design in a Lanchester balancer into the engine. But it was probably cheaper to utilize a 6-cylinder engine that was already mostly designed..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 4:07pm
By 1967, that engine series had been around for 30 plus years, and to redesign it for a balancer just wasn't in the cards. The G-2500/ 265 cube engine (already being used in the One-Ninety since 1964) was much more competitive from a sales standpoint, altho it cost more $$$$$ to build over the old 4-banger. All they did was installed a smaller carburetor and slow the engine speed down to 2200 from 2450 and it was a done deal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 5:24am
DrAllis, I like your modifications. Makes for better visibility for sure.
 Years ago I had thought about putting an XT platform and fuel tank on a 170 but that would have taken a lot of work to accomplish all the needed modifications and connections, it would have given a nice level platform for the feet.
  I like how you had lowered the fuel sediment filter and took it out to the side where you could get to it easier. When I resurrected my 170 last year, I basically did the same with the sediment bowl assembly too, by just putting an elbow in the tank and brought a pipe out the side with a bit of grinding to the fuel tank frame support for the pipe to pass under it. I pointed the filter outlet backwards and bent a steel line into a "j" shape and slide the line into both carb and bowl fittings at the same time. Also cut an opening to see it easily and be able to reach in and turn the valve off if need be without being a contortionist.  Sure beats trying to get to the sediment bowel in the winter if you happen to get dirt or water in it under there... When I take the tank off on my other One-Seventy to weld a small leak, it will get approximately the same treatment too. But, will lower it more so no grinding is involved.
 https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/uploads/242/170_Sediment_filter.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 6:04am
The engineer who designed the sediment bowl locations on the One-Seventy and One-Eighty should have been fired. The same engineer must have did the battery location on the One-Seventy too !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 7:45am
Agreed on the engineer!!
It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 3:43pm
One of my engineer buddies is a specialist in NVH... Noise, Vibration, and Harmonics. The company sends him all over to sites to climb into machines and operate them, while his instruments measure the audio and mechanical environment inside, and outside the machines.  He takes that data back to his office, analyzes it, and studies the machines to determine how to reduce ALL of them.  When people ask him what KIND of an engineer he is, he responds:

I'm a CE-  a 'Comfort'  Engineer...

From gear cutting, to foam insulation, to elbows in hydraulic lines to crankshaft shapes, he's part of basically every aspect of his clients' machines... and for good reason:

Comfort is safety. Comfort is productivity.  Comfort is longetivity.

Suffice to say, that vibrations aren't just hard on your feet, they're hard on bearings, belts, bolts, and bundles of wire, as well as bones.  Vibrations turn flat surfaces into speakers, and that, in turn, deafens workers and operators over the long term, and obscures NECCESSARY sound (voices, machinery problems) from a jobsite.

One of the things engineers realized, when going from the pre-styled era, to the styled era, is that having shrouding OVER the mechanicals helped reduce exterior noise...

...until that shrouding became in hard-contact with a vibrating surface... at which time, the noise of a rattling shroud became louder than the running machine... and as a result, many old-timers would say that the unstyled tractors were 'quieter'... and in a sense, they very well COULD have been.

Any guy who's operated an unsuppressed cab knows how 'loud' that space can be.  Chassis and powerplant vibrations transmitted through that shell turn the cab into an acoustic fish-bowl, which hammers it into the operator.  Isolating the cab, and then applying dampening and baffles to it, reduces all that noise.

As AC7060IL noted, position seems to have an effect... well, it DOES.  Many machines now have mufflers located under the hood, and the exhaust pipe discharging from a point WITHIN the shroud, rather than projecting out, and the reason is simple-  the exterior surface of that muffler is flexing from exhaust pressure pulses, and thus, it is a 'speaker'.  Couple that, to engine vibration transmitted through the manifold, sound pressure coming off that muffler is being directed to the acoustic environment around, and it is most noticeable in the direction of primary vibration.  Vibration isn't just vibration, it has directivity... it's vibrating right and left, up and down, fore and aft... in any number of combinations.  That means what you THINK might suppress a vibration, doesn't prove effective, because the vibration is going in a direction that the suppression effort doesn't take into account.  If that vibrating object IS a muffler, and IS directly in front of you, and IS vibrating in a plane in your direction, it WILL be loud there... while being below or above, it won't be as much.

Modern machines are so well suppressed now, that jobsites have become much easier to communicate, and much less damaging to our hearing, in basically ever aspect...

Except for backup alarms.  Three years ago, I was on a jobsite, trying to manage a crane operation with 44,000lbs on the hook. All the backup alarms for the groundworking machines totally drowned out our signalman's ability to hear our direction calls.  I had to ask the site superintendant's assistance, he hit the big horn to call an emergency shutdown drill and safety meeting...  for everyone but my crane, so that we could get the most dangerous part of the positioning done.  We were extremely thankful, and he was willing to oblige, as it also got to be logged as compliance to his OHSA safety drill requirements.  Next morning, I arrived with 6 dozen donuts as a huge thank-you.

I'm not the only guy that has problems with all the backup alarms, now they're equipping trucks with 'white noise' rather than 'beep beep' alarms.
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