6V Starter Mystery

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   I'm stumped on the 6v starter on my D14
I just got it back from a reputable repair shop we've been going to for generations, for the third time, and still I'm no closer to solving the problem than when I started.

So, I started thinking maybe it's not the starter, maybe I missed something. (Although the repair shop charged me all 3 times....so you'd think they found something wrong each time, right?!)

Anyway, in addition to having the starter rebuilt, I replaced the solenoid, starter button, battery and battery cables but nothing helps.

At best, if you have a battery charger on it and the battery is at full 100%, the starter will sometimes engage about half a revolution of the engine and then , that's it....The solenoid will click and stay humming but the starter won't spin.

It will spin like mad if you take it off the tractor and hook it direct to a 12v battery, so it's not like it refuses to go....problem is, It's suppose to be working on 6v system.

I've even took wires, batteries, solenoids, you name it, off of some of my other tractors with still the same result.

What I don't have, unfortunately, is another used starter to absolutely eliminate the starter as the problem.

So, after my saving account rebounds , my only recourse is to purchase another starter, but before I do that, I was hoping someone here might have some ideas....what else could be wrong? What did I miss?

Part of me is going to be disappointed with my local repair shop if it is still the starter, while the other part of me will be relieved, because if it isn't , again,  I am at a loss....

The only other thing I can ad is, the tractor has 900 original hours....it was almost 100 percent original until I started to replace starter related parts. All gauges and lights work, the wiring harness looks very good.... I thought of a draw somewhere in the system, but no wires ever get hot, nothing sparking, the battery's is not going dead. When I push the starter button, holding a volt meter on the starter post, it goes from 6v, down to half a volt in an instant. 

Again, Any thoughts are appreciated.

Edited by JayD-17(NY) - 01 Jul 2021 at 2:35pm

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JayD-17(NY) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: New York Points: 577	Post Options Post Reply Quote JayD-17(NY) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 6V Starter Mystery Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 2:32pm
	I'm stumped on the 6v starter on my D14 I just got it back from a reputable repair shop we've been going to for generations, for the third time, and still I'm no closer to solving the problem than when I started. So, I started thinking maybe it's not the starter, maybe I missed something. (Although the repair shop charged me all 3 times....so you'd think they found something wrong each time, right?!) Anyway, in addition to having the starter rebuilt, I replaced the solenoid, starter button, battery and battery cables but nothing helps. At best, if you have a battery charger on it and the battery is at full 100%, the starter will sometimes engage about half a revolution of the engine and then , that's it....The solenoid will click and stay humming but the starter won't spin. It will spin like mad if you take it off the tractor and hook it direct to a 12v battery, so it's not like it refuses to go....problem is, It's suppose to be working on 6v system. I've even took wires, batteries, solenoids, you name it, off of some of my other tractors with still the same result. What I don't have, unfortunately, is another used starter to absolutely eliminate the starter as the problem. So, after my saving account rebounds , my only recourse is to purchase another starter, but before I do that, I was hoping someone here might have some ideas....what else could be wrong? What did I miss? Part of me is going to be disappointed with my local repair shop if it is still the starter, while the other part of me will be relieved, because if it isn't , again, I am at a loss.... The only other thing I can ad is, the tractor has 900 original hours....it was almost 100 percent original until I started to replace starter related parts. All gauges and lights work, the wiring harness looks very good.... I thought of a draw somewhere in the system, but no wires ever get hot, nothing sparking, the battery's is not going dead. When I push the starter button, holding a volt meter on the starter post, it goes from 6v, down to half a volt in an instant. Again, Any thoughts are appreciated. Edited by JayD-17(NY) - 01 Jul 2021 at 2:35pm

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steve(ill) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85495	Post Options Post Reply Quote steve(ill) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 4:04pm
	When I push the starter button, holding a volt meter on the starter post, it goes from 6v, down to half a volt in an instant. thats not good..You said the starter will spin on 12 volts... Does the motor turn over by hand ?..... not sure if you are measuring the BATTERY, or the starter draw. I would be temped to take the battery wire off your generator / regulator, and put the 12 v battery in the tractor and try it.. Keep the LIGHTS OFF. You can take the starter cable off the starter and put a short extension on it...Take your 12 volt battery and set on the floor below the starter. Use jumper cables to connect one terminal to tractor ground ( make sure its CLEAN)... take another jumper cable and connect to the other battery terminal and TOUCH the short cable on the starter.. TRACTOR IN NEUTRAL.... Now you have BYPASSED the switch/ button / and 6v battery for a TEST. Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Jul 2021 at 4:11pm
	Like them all, but love the "B"s.

mdm1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Onalaska, WI Points: 2665	Post Options Post Reply Quote mdm1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 5:15pm
	I have to ask. Did you use heavy battery cables for a 6v system? My B would act the same way. Did about what you did. I finally had a welding shop make me new battery cables. What a difference. Now it spins like it should but still needs a new ring gear! Just a thought.
	Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!

garden_guy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Location: Illinois Points: 1146	Post Options Post Reply Quote garden_guy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 5:26pm
	Hmmm... I had issues with my tractor not wanting to start and I wound up putting on a new ground strap and a new battery cable to the starter. Now when I had a dead battery, I tried a jump pack and only got that solenoid hum without with starter actually engaging... Not sure how different the starter button is on the D14 from the WD... But, seems like you've hit the places I would expect to make a difference.

Orange B Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Location: PA Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange B Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 5:46pm
	Hi, almost sounds like the the starter is binding on the ring gear. Not sure how the D14 starter mounts as it is a little newer than the tractors I grew up with , is it possible to shim it somehow to adjust more clearance between the ring gear and starter?

DSeries4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7433	Post Options Post Reply Quote DSeries4 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 8:24pm
	I would be looking at the battery cables again. Make sure they are the really thick ones. It sounds like the ones you have aren't able to deliver the juice that the starter needs. Make sure your ground connections are good and clean too.
	'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 9:20pm
	Try to spin it on bench with YOUR 6 volt battery. Sounds like a bad battery. Check battery with a load tester. MACK

Hyperpack Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Access Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Location: 54806 Points: 65	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hyperpack Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 10:48pm
	Had the same problem 30 years ago on the D14, The trouble was the bellhousing bore where the starter mounts was badly rusted from a battery leaking years before. The starter needs to make a ground there because thats the grounding path to the battery. I began connecting a ground directly to the starter field housing on all my rigs to minimize the number of possible bad connections. a good way to do that is drill and tap for a 3/8 bolt between the field windings or weld a bolt to the housing.

Sugarmaker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8426	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sugarmaker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 5:55am
	I assume the engine turns over and is not stuck in some way?? Sorry had to ask it. Clean ground is my first stop. Testing the starter outside the tractor for function helps assure you it spins. We need some pictures also! Regards, Chris
	D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11925	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 6:29am
	I always preach here, test the power source first. Slow charge the Battery over night, let it sit for about 20 minutes or so after being charged, and then pull a draw test. If it dumps, there's your first problem. If the Battery passes the draw test, make sure the cables aren't having a corrosion issue internally especially if they're the originals. Its nice to keep original parts on anything, but age & Mother Nature takes its toll on electrical components and the reliability is gone. And so is your hair from pulling it out. Here's another question. The rebuilder you've been going to, does he inspect and test the armatures in these units? If he's just putting brushes, bearings & bushings in them and charging you, my Grandaughter can do that. Make sure he's testing the arm. The armature is the heart of power and torque. If it's open, you're losing all torque and power to spin the engine. All my rebuilds get a rewound or new arm in them everytime. I don't leave a 60+ year old arm in service when I do a rebuild. Ya do it right, or don't do it at all. With the 6V system, I"m sure you're aware, the grounds are super important. Make sure the Starter is grounded correctly and your Pos ground cable free and clear of any rust. Use a new bolt also if its grounded to a steering post or something like that. You'll find the culprit. Just takes some troubleshooting time....HTH Steve@B&B
	39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24336	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 6:29am
	All my D-14s, even the 2, 6 volters are now '12'.... 1) I suspect the battery cables are kaput. Have new ones made from welding cable NOT 'over the counter car ones'. 2) clean the starter and bellhousing where it slides in AND the pointy bolt ! Those ARE the grounds and they need to be clean(no rust, no paint). Also snug the bolt down, then tighten the 'locking' nut. Again, that's all part of the ground..... There's no 'wiggle' room for 'marginal,good enough' wiring on a 6 volt system,so attention to details is critical. I can understand the 'keep as original',hopefully a tweak here and there, and she'll be up and running soon ! Jay
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

jngeorge Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 08 Sep 2010 Location: S. Coffeyville Points: 18	Post Options Post Reply Quote jngeorge Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 8:25am
	Funny thing, I have Super C doing the exact same thing. Just bought tractor at neighbors farm sell. Pull started fine and ran like a top. Could not get the 6v battery to start it. Charged it for a couple days and tried again, battery showed bad. Replaced battery and expected it to fire off. Still engine would barely turn over. Had wife pull the starter rod while I shook cables and messed with stuff while the starter hummed for a second or two and when I hit the ground to the starter is whirled. Cleaned connections on starter ground and starter keeper bolt and now she hits every time.

Joe(TX) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Weatherford. TX Points: 1682	Post Options Post Reply Quote Joe(TX) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 9:39pm
	I agree with Steve on the grounds. Most trouble I have had has been the grounding.
	1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A

Fred in Pa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9210	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fred in Pa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 5:46am
	Where is ground cable collecting on tractor .
	He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.