Need Info on D17IV Front Hub

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   One front hub on my D17 IV gave out.  I noticed some play, and pulling the wheel the larger inner bearing was bad.  It must have been going for a while and I didn't notice it, as the race was also loose in the hub.  So I will need to find a new hub.  

Looking at the Agco partsbook, it shows the IV as using hub 70237438 with seal 
70235120.  However, my old hub had the felt washer type seal, 70202104 with hub 
70228897.  The bearing and race part numbers are all else the same between the two hubs, so I am assuming the two different hub numbers are only due to minor differences in the machining of the hub to accept the newer rubber washer style seal?

Funny that my IV had the felt washer seal style, so I am assuming somewhere in its life it acquired the older style hub.  

I guess the question is, since I will either be ordering a new hub, or try to find a good used one, I guess I will need to order one of the two style seals that will fit the type of hub?  Is there an easy way to tell the difference between these two hub styles if I come across a used one?  Also, any opinions as to whether the newer rubber washer seal is way superior to the older felt style?

Thanks.

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Oldwrench Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jan 2020 Location: Northeast Points: 157	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldwrench Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Need Info on D17IV Front Hub Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 6:14am
	One front hub on my D17 IV gave out. I noticed some play, and pulling the wheel the larger inner bearing was bad. It must have been going for a while and I didn't notice it, as the race was also loose in the hub. So I will need to find a new hub. Looking at the Agco partsbook, it shows the IV as using hub 70237438 with seal 70235120. However, my old hub had the felt washer type seal, 70202104 with hub 70228897. The bearing and race part numbers are all else the same between the two hubs, so I am assuming the two different hub numbers are only due to minor differences in the machining of the hub to accept the newer rubber washer style seal? Funny that my IV had the felt washer seal style, so I am assuming somewhere in its life it acquired the older style hub. I guess the question is, since I will either be ordering a new hub, or try to find a good used one, I guess I will need to order one of the two style seals that will fit the type of hub? Is there an easy way to tell the difference between these two hub styles if I come across a used one? Also, any opinions as to whether the newer rubber washer seal is way superior to the older felt style? Thanks.

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Oldwrench Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jan 2020 Location: Northeast Points: 157	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldwrench Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 6:41am
	Just as a follow up to my post above. I looked up the spindle part numbers, and they are different for a IV and prior series. The partsbooks lists the IV front spindle as 70237434 prior to SN:83272 (my SN: is 76350). Prior to the IV, the spindle PN is 70237067. So either my tractor acquired a new front end somewhere in its life (possible) or it had the wrong seal kit in it. So if I search for a new hub, I will need to know which front end it has on it. Is there an easy way to distinguish what style front spindles I have on my machine, so I can search for the appropriate hub, or are the differences minor enough it doesn't matter. The tractor is used for mowing and routine small chores, so if the seal isn't perfect, I'm sure it would go for another 40 years or so.

DonDittmar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2517	Post Options Post Reply Quote DonDittmar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 6:55am
	The early tractors were 5 bolt, the latter ones were 6 bolt. Bearings races and seals all interchange as far as I know, just depends if you have a 5 or 6 bolt wheel. For 6 bolt: https://stores.djstractorparts.com/allis-chalmers-front-hub-6-lug-70261418/ For 5 bolt: https://stores.djstractorparts.com/allis-chalmers-front-hub-assembly-5-lug-d10-d12-d14-d15-d17-wd-wd45/ Later style bearing kit: https://stores.djstractorparts.com/front-wheel-bearing-kit-allis-d17-d19-200-190-180-170-160-70263800/ Early Style wheel bearing kit: https://stores.djstractorparts.com/allis-chalmers-front-wheel-bearing-kit/
	Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start

DonDittmar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: MIllersburg, MI Points: 2517	Post Options Post Reply Quote DonDittmar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 6:58am
	Only difference between the 2 wheel bearing kits is the seal itself if I remember right. If memory also serves me correctly, either seal will go in either hub and the bearings and races are the same, there was just an update to a more modern type seal. Dont take all this as gospel, its been a while and I dont have my notes of the past in front of me
	Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start

Oldwrench Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jan 2020 Location: Northeast Points: 157	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldwrench Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 7:06am
	Don, Thanks. That explains it. I have a 5 bolt hub, so I'm guessing something got changed over at some point in its life prior to our buying it (around 1981). So I would need to buy a 5 bolt hub and the older style bearing/seal kit it appears. One thing on the tractor that always seemed odd, is the large shaft at the back of the front end assembly, where it pivots and bolts to the engine/transmission, is a little bent. So it is possible something happened to the front end, and the prior owner replaced it with an entire older front end assembly. Or Allis changed the front assembly after my SN. In any event, it looks like I have the older style front end with 5 bolt hubs. Thank you for the information.