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Somebody refresh my memory........

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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Somebody refresh my memory........
    Posted: 18 May 2021 at 8:47pm
...... as to what was the reason those ashats in government mandated that push lawn mowers are manufactured without engine throttle’s? Mowed the lawn this past weekend, and low and behold, every time I needed to move something out of my way, it was restart the engine, trim around a tree? w.o.t., not cut back to just a tad above idle like years ago.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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DanWi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 9:57pm
Don't know either why they don't have a throttle but I have a piece of twine tied around the handle so it doesn't shut off all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:02pm
yep...taped my handle
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:06pm
I use a piece of wire on the handle, just seems silly to be trimming around things, and the engine is wide open.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:09pm
When did they start doing that, (running wide open all the time)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 4:48am
Probably another invention of the guy who invented the internet, oh and them gas cans that don't pour!Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 5:22am
simple,easy answer..
Allows for higher profit margins....
 less parts..more money made
there's probably 10-20 parts to make a throttle cable assembly and attach it to the engine and handle. a LOT of 'steps' that some $$$ priced HUMAN has to do.
Also NO inventory needed for the cable, mtg screws,etc. less $$$ HUMANS in the assembly line...

BTW I use old battery jumper cable ends on the bailbar.

Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 6:02am
Hold on now, let's think about this.  It was probably done out of necessity, how many lawn mower purchasers in the city do you think are smart enough to run a throttle? 1 out of 10, 3 out of 10?

Same reason they have that safety shut off on the handle, do you really think most of them would know to shut off the engine before they sharpen the blade? Wink
"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 6:59am
You got it 99
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 7:33am
     Just like the cars that shut off when you stop. Think of the fuel savings with that mower when you are pouring that soon to be $5.00+ per gallon gas into it. Ha ha. Nothing makes sense anymore. Around here instead of trimming I make a couple of applications of Roundup during the mowing season. I hate trimming. Just don't get the spray on any of the wife's flowers. Don't ask me how I know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2021 at 7:49am
Someone figured it was safer that way, so the safety people required it.

I have a Z-turn that instructions say to always operate at full throttle. 
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARY(OH/IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 12:04am
I have a zip tie on the one my wife uses. Have it tight enough engine runs when you walk away and loose enough to slip around either end to shut off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 10:20am
Fifty plus years ago a friend started a lawn mower service business while still in High School.  Got a call from someone that their mower wouldn't start.  Went to get it, checked the oil, none in it.  "You have to put oil in it?"  Sold them a new engine, with explicit instructions to check the oil.  That was the first of many calls he got over the few years he had the business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Royer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 8:27pm
Now mr 99, I don't think we've met but everybody knows that if you leave it running, you can throw a wrench on that crankshaft and you can save yerself a whole lotta time by not having to drag out that air hose. By the way, hello again everybody!
I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 8:37pm
Hello Les, by golly man how’s it hanging? It’s been a month of blue moons since we heard from you.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2021 at 9:38pm
GOOD GOLLY, GAWD Almighty!!!  HI Les!!
You been gone on here longer than I have!!  Nice to see your smiling face again!!!!!
This'll make Joe's day!

Can't help on the stupidity of why on the lawn mower.  Somehow though, it must be to protect the idjet that can't figure out how to start the mower.
WHY are we protecting these people??  Let's just thin out the gene pool and be done with them.
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2021 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Les Royer Les Royer wrote:

Now mr 99, I don't think we've met but everybody knows that if you leave it running, you can throw a wrench on that crankshaft and you can save yerself a whole lotta time by not having to drag out that air hose. By the way, hello again everybody!
WELCOME Back Buddy!!  Are you going to Hutch this year?  Would be nice to see that smiling face again!  And it's the GOTO this year also!!
Shamers hasn't relented and said yes as yet,,,,,,but if'n he don't.........theres a BUNCH of us that know where he lives.....
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EPALLIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2021 at 8:55pm
Thanks for all these great ideas on how to tie the throttle down.  And here, I've been holding mine down like you are supposed to for years.  Thanks everyone!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 7:09pm
The "safety mechanisms" and the engine throttle are two different subjects.

The hand-op throttle is actually a 'variable governor' setup... the governor is usually a vane in the cooling duct, that as engine speed increases, airflow off the flywheel blower increases, causing the vane to reduce engine speed.  Just governance to prevent overspeed. 

They got clever, and incorporated a cam into the throttle lever, so that at a certain position, the choke would close.  Governor vane motion would partially open the throttle to allow it to continue running (without stalling from overrich, right?)... then they added a contact in the throttle control arm that when pulled all the way PAST idle, it'd short the magneto, shutting it down.

the REASON for being able to throttle down, was strictly for warmup of a cold engine.  An air-cooled engine relies on forced airflow, and the flywheel blower's speed creates the airflow pressure for that function.  When you slow the airflow DOWN, the engine warms up faster... and that warms up the intake (which is where frost forms on startup).  By having a SLOW speed, a cold engine can start and warm, and then be brought to full goverened speed to work.  At full goverened, the blower will push enough air through the shroud to keep the head and cylinder cool... at least, as long as it's not full of mice and grass clippings, right?

Problem is, cutting grass with a rotary blade is a 'velocity relative' operation... tip speed is important... too fast, and you'll dull the blade rapidly, too slow and the blade won't cut effectively... so running it at some point other-than-optimal (for the blade length, and cooling RPM) results in poor performance.

So they set 'em up to run at a fixed speed, like a generator. In doing so, the governor maintains a more stable speed anyway... nature of the design of a fixed vs. variable speed gov.

Now, as for the safety bail on the handle...  as they term them "Compliance Engines" (they 'comply' with safety regulations), the safety bail either kills the ignition and applies a spring-brake against the flywheel, OR... it disengages a drive clutch to the blade, and applies a brake, to stop the blade.

The INTENTION, is to stop the blade fast in case something happens... to keep people from getting hurt.

Bear with me here for a minute...

The flapper on the back of the deck... it's purpose is to exclude a person's foot IF they happen to slip into the mower from the rear.

The SAFETY GAS CAN's purpose is to protect individuals from the result of spills, leaks, and venting.

the AIRBAG's purpose is to prevent you from smacking solid surfaces in a car, in the event that you're in a crash, and not adequately restrained.

the SEAT BELT's purpose is to keep you from being thrown from the car for same.

The WARNING STICKER on the side of your McDonald's Coffee Cup's purpose is to protect you from being burned by hot coffee.

The real answer, is that none of the advertised purposes is actually TRUE.

The ACTUAL purpose of the bail on the mower, is to prevent the manufacturer from being fined by the federal government for not having a bail on the mower.  The bail, in reality, serves no effective purpose at protecting the operator, because, in the course of an accidental circumstance (a loss of footing or control), the instinctive reaction, is to HANG ON to the mower, so one doesn't slip into it.

The ACTUAL purpose of  flapper on the back of the mower's deck, is to prevent the manufacturer from being fined by the federal government for not having a flapper on the back of the mower... because, in the circumstance of a slip towards the mower, the operator, holding onto the handle and bail, causes the back of the mower to rise, and upon foot striking the bail, it folds UNDER the mower, providing a nice, easy, directed path for a foot to slide under.

For anyone who doubts these statements, send me an email, I will send you a picture of my left foot, as BOTH of the above statements are true to that circumstance.

As for the safety can...  since the contents of a common gasoline can expands and contracts with both ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure, the total elimination of venting is, in reality, much worse than what we USED to have.  They now 'spew' violently combustible spray upon opening... and since these cans are now basically all plastic, a combination of expansion, contraction, UV and GASOLINE exposure embrittle and cause them to crack, which results in them bursting ON THEIR OWN... something our old vented steel cans NEVER DID.  Let's hear it for the 'safety' hawks.

As for the airbag...  there's circumstances where they work... and just as many where they don't, and some where they do more harm than good... and as we've found (with Takata) the opportunity cost, over the LONG TERM, was totally misrepresented.  If a person wants to buy a Jeep, and they don't want airbags, that's their call.  ABS, 'traction control' and 'dynamic stability control' is in the same category... people that know how to drive, not only don't NEED those 'features', they can be endangered by systems that either fight, or totally take away, control which they would otherwise be able to maintain BETTER than a system which cannot see and understand what lies immediately ahead.

As for the seatbelt...  if a person chooses to not wear one, that's no fault of the manufacturer.  I always do... unless I'm driving on a frozen lake.

As for the warning on the coffee cup... the circumstance of a coffee drinker (which I am not) seems to prefer coffee to reach them in an excessively hot state, so that once it cools to the preferred temperature, they can drink it, and usually (in winter anyway) provide internal warmth.  I have been advised by my crushed-bean-drinking comrades, that most fast-food organizations have, for obvious reasons, resolved all this liability by simply serving lousy coffee, cold... even so much as to advertised it as "Iced Coffee" in an attempt to commerciallize what they feel least risked-by.

I will tell the future:

Someday, someone will be driving a car, and some 'system' will detect an unsafe condition, and 'take control' away from the 'driver' in an attempt to recover... and when that happens, and the circumstance results in serious injury or death, the driver will be placed on witness stand.  The lawyer will ask 'What did you do', and the DRIVER will answer "Nothing... because I could do nothing- the car's systems took away control".

At that point, the CAR, and it's MANUFACTURER, and the programmers of the systems, will now be liable for all injury and damage done by the car.

Perhaps sensibility will prevail once 'safety organizations' become the conduit of liability. it is Personal responsibility, not Regulation, that is the Alpha, and the Omega of true safety.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 7:30pm
Can laugh if wish to, ALL new for 2022 Class 8 Trucks will have Steering Over Ride set to side forward and rearward facing sensors, drivers will NOT be able to dodge into 'the other lane' to avoid crashes or to intentionally hit someone else, along with Driver Acuity/Attentive sensors to know if falling asleep, Auto Braking will be Standard with Semi Autonomous shifting(NOT an Automatic) Transmission where the clutch is also autonomous(NO Pedal).

Stupid Machines for stupid people that have NO PURPOSE driving them.  Followed a SWIFT Transport truck into a local store lot, driver was catty and nervous, HAD TO back to the dock on his Blind Side ALL BY HIMSELF, had not EVER done it prior(Quoted as Had Passed a training school).  Finally after three aborted attempts gave up and had the store personnel unload in the lot with a fork truck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonBC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 10:22pm
I don't think the throttle and choke controls are mandated by any government agency. I bought a new gas mower three years ago and it has no throttle or choke controls. I believe that manufacturers are trying to make gas mowers seem as simple to operate for ignorant owners as electric mowers.
Jack of all trades, master of none
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 10:32pm
Back when those first came out, the guys at the JD store told me it was a California regulation. Since JD had no idea which mowers were gonna wind up in California, they made them all that way. Shameless I wuz not in there buying green. I did a whole lot of tire work for them back then. I really enjoyed doing tractor/combine/forklift tires for them. I got to do them all on concrete, in the winter they would let me work inside their shop.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 11:36pm
Presence of lack of choke and throttle are NOT mandated...

But evolution of design excused them from existance.


Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2021 at 11:52pm
well said Dave! and true in my eyes as well, seems they can't think of more ways faster to take away more forms of controls on vehicles, notice how everything is made so you have to take your hands off the steering wheel to work anything? soon we'll be braking and accelerating off the steering wheel or somewhere on the dash that can't be reached handy. oh chit...don't pass this on to any govt people...they'll put the word in! i yank the ABS fuse in all my vehicles. ya'll remember that when your vehicles get some age on them that the auto trac control will have a pause in it before engaging, that could put your vehicle into a spin at highway speeds...have seen this happen to many times to count, plus scraping up the bodies after the fact. there are more accidents that happen from people that drive 4x4's that have no idea how they work. Tom...o-k...you saved yourself on going to the weed store! ya'll ever notice that on bouts everything made or consumed it'll have a saying on it..."it is known in the state of CA to cause cancer" or something close to that. and when you read owners manuals that comes with any power tools or anything that requires electric/battery to operate, when you find the english printing, you'll find 97% of it saying the don'ts do this or that. how many of ya'll have plugged your electric drill in, then submerged it in a bucket of water while running it? WELCOME BACK LES! 
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