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garden_guy 
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 Topic: Some WD issues (oil leaks and radiator stuff)
Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 6:44pm |
So working on the WD tonight that I've been cleaning... I've noticed a few issues (three for now) Any insight or direction would be most appreciated. I was running with the radiator cap off just sitting at a tad above idle for about 10 minutes, and I looked in and noticed bubbles in the radiator. There seems to be a wee bit of white foam around as well. Oil level and quality looks good however (nothing milky or anything). Radiator cap seems in good shape except for a wee bit of corrosion at the top of the stem, it's only about 10 years old.
Noticing that I seem to be getting oil coming out of the top of the front and back valve cover bolts after cleaning them last week? Seems weird it would wick up there.
Also notice I've got some oil coming down on the engine support bracket that goes between the two frame rails... I suspect this is from the front curved part of the oil pan gasket? Any good way to fix that without replacing the whole pan gasket, or other things to check? Didn't get a great picture of this one.
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dr p
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 7:47pm |
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The radiator I am not sure about. The oil leaking around valve cover could be a case of over tightening the nuts, thus distorting the rubber washer. As for the oil pan gasket, don't try to piecemeal the gasket. There is a great video on the knowledge page about replacing the gasket. The man who made it probably knew more about allis tractors than every one on this page combined.
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garden_guy
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 8:03pm |
I am not sure what to make of the radiator either... I use this tractor to mow with and the radiator cap never gets "hot" to the touch, which makes me think it is cooling okay... I'd expect a head gasket leak to lead to overtemp? I had someone suggest to me to check the freeze plugs for holes? Or some other places it could be sucking in air causing bubbles.
Good to know on the valve cover gasket. And.... Oh yeah, I don't want to piecemeal the pan gasket. But it seems to be leaking more now that I cleaned the gunk off that must've been sealing it up lol.
Edited by garden_guy - 18 Dec 2020 at 8:04pm
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 9:12am |
GG, First it makes me happy you are getting into the WD more! The rad, well from what you described I not be too concerned, but I am not a expert. I would just check the oil and rad once in a while to make sure they are not have one where it doesnt belong. The valve cover nuts. You can get new rubber pieces to go in those areas and hepl seal it up. And as mentioned it may have been over tightened. Do a good eyeball on the cover for straightness. If your going to take the valve cover off to check it out, it might be a good time for a new gasket if the old one falls apart. The lower front: Well my good friend Don Bradley would say two things. One is just look the other way and check the oil when using it. Or second if you want to fix it right then pull the engine and with the engine upside down in a stand you can proceed to check components for damage, and reseal the pan with new gaskets and his detailed methods. Which by the way I finally listened to him and did the last one right (twice). Unless your planning a engine overhaul I would go with option #1. I think almost every one of my WD series tractors has a diaper under it. They are built with old technology and the leaks are very common. Yes cleaning the area allows the impacted crud that was slowing the leak to be removed and leak a little more. If you can take a picture (close up) of the front seal area , we might be able to help more?? I would gently tighten the oil pan bolts to see if that might help too. Just snug them up really easy like a 3 year old would do!  Then go watch Don's video on the oil pan gasket install. Some good things in there. One thing in his video that he doesn't mention is that the crank needs to be out of the engine to do the rear main seal. Its been a while but I think I am correct on that??? I have slept several times since I did the last one. Some bits and pieces of doing the seal up process. Don't let this scare you! You can do this! Its just nuts and bolts! Rear main outer aluminum plate rework and rear main felt crank seal:
Lower rear seal in bearing cap:
Maybe you could change this upper rear seal and plate with the crank in place??
You can also have a leak here at the front crank seal and it can run down on the to the pan too. Finding the source of the leak can be as much fun as fixing it too!
Another shot of the crank seal being installed:
I know I am dumping pictures on you! Sorry! Here is a rear pan fit up check. also note, this pan was cracked and had to go into the weld shop for minor repairs;
Side gaskets in place:
A lot of the time this is where the leak on the front happens. Front of engine at timing cover to block gasket corner joint. At the area where the gray sealant is. Sometimes its not there or never was and there is a potential leak path between the two gaskets at the corner:
Front seal held in place on pan with three clips:
Pan bolt areas flattened and dowels used for pan alignment:
Final pan install, the bolt over the oil pressure spring inlet is shorter than the rest also:
By the way this is how it starts! Just sayin........! It looks real good cleaned up! Thanks for the pictures! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 19 Dec 2020 at 9:16am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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garden_guy
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 12:13pm |
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Sugarmaker -- Thanks for all the feedback! I went back and watched Don's oil pan video. Very informative, though probably beyond my skills and tools. That's a lot of fantastic pictures along the way there. May see if my cousin wants to help me out on this one, as he has a better shop than me.
Good call on the valve cover gasket. I actually have a new gasket I got this summer, but didn't realize there were rubber pieces for the top. I probably need to check those cork pieces in the rocket assembly as well as the freeze plugs if I dig in there. The cover hasn't been off since 1970 as far as I know, and it doesn't look bent or warped, but you never know.
Is there a torque spec for the valve cover?
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 1:03pm |
GG,
Spec for the valve cover nuts? Well it wouldn't be much maybe 10 inch lbs?????? thats a guess. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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dr p
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 2:36pm |
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10 15 pounds max. Chris is right if it is the front seal, you might just want to check the oil periodically. The oil pan is not a big deal. I fixed mine on the kitchen table while my wife was on call one night. The soup can is key
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garden_guy
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 7:39pm |
Sugarmaker & dr p -- Oh wow, just 10-15 pounds. Yeah not hard to over torque at all. So today I did some more cleaning... I also did some lug nut swapping on the front rims. Interestingly, on the left side picture are what places sell for "new" front lug rims. And on the right side is what I believe at my original front lug nuts. The new ones take a 13/16 driver and come thru the back side more than the old ones that take a 3/4 driver and are just a bit past flush. Plus the old ones have a little dished in head whereas the new ones are solid. One side is all original and one side is all new now.  Also decided I better clean up the starter wire contacts just to make sure I was getting the best possible chance of starting each time. Definitely was nasty behind this nut (pic is a bit blurry).  Baking soda, a tooth brush and hot water cleaned up the corrosion from the battery terminals and the cables really good. Then I just hit them with a wire brush and a terminal cleaning tool when I was done.  Then lastly, I put some air in the back tires... Not squatting bad now. Shot some calcium out, and I had new valve cores on hand but they quit leaking as soon as they took air, so crisis averted. Cleaned up my inflator but hoping the calcium doesn't eat it up anyway.  Then spent the rest of the day on my back scraping down the underside. I think I used 2 cans of carb cleaner and a jug of mineral spirits and lots of soap and water to get her to this point. First time she's been cleaned since new, I reckon.  Ready for a nap!!
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AC720Man
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 8:09pm |
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Always put air in the tires with valve stem at the top. You shouldn’t loose any calcium if you do it that way. You spent a lot of time cleaning it and that is hard work. I rent a steam Ginny, man it will bring that grime right off. Spray some degreaser, allow it to set at least 15 more minutes And then hit it with the Ginny. Well worth the $40 to rent it.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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dr p
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 8:49pm |
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Garden guy, really smart first step by cleaning 60 years of crud off first. Plus you don't need all the dirt on the shop floor. Sugarman has a collection of repairs that he has done on the website. They are constantly one of the better sets of information you can find. He is not a fancy tool guy so you don't have to worry about spending a lot . Have fun!
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 9:01am |
While you are this close it would be a good time to check the valve lash. This is one people often overlook. Out of site, out of mind.
If you change the pan gaskets, DO NOT 'trim' the end pieces. They need to be that long to work. Chris is right about raising the crank to change the rear main seal. I did a thread about this years ago. Make sure the cam is in time going back together!
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 9:49am |
GG, Great maintenance on your WD! Your getting into portions of the project that can get you on the slippery slope! Clean, refurb and paint. Which is what I do to most of mine. So your into the clean and the refurb. Just need to get to the paint part. Which as mentioned by AC720Man a hot water power wash would take a lot of the work out of cleaning. I dont have one but it sure would be nice! Your WD has dirt and oil in all the right places! Perfect! Its 20 lbs lighter, and you can start to see some of the details which were hidden by years of accumulation! Thanks for the pictures too! Your doing good! I think like you, the dished lugs bolts were the original type. Merry Christmas! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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garden_guy
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 2:38pm |
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AC720Man -- Yep, got the valves to the top and when I put the inflator on I got a big spurt of calcium spraying out before I got it fully engaged. Makes me wonder if the tires aren't overfilled with fluid to cause that, as both sides did it? A steam cleaner sounds fantastic for sure.
dr p -- Oh yes, sugarmaker's thread has been fantastic, I have used it to do lots of upgrades on this tractor over the past year or two!
IBWD Mike -- Good call not to cut the gasket. Thanks for the other info. Didn't think about checking the valve lash, but probably a good time to do it if I pull the cover.
Sugarmaker -- With the cleaning coming along nicely, I could see paint in this tractor's future. Other than the oil leaks, not too many other things of large concern with it anymore, especially after I got the front hubs fixed and the clutch/brakes fixed.
Surprised at all the weird casting nubs and drain plugs I've found underneath the tractor while cleaning, haha. Interesting what the non-snap coupler setup looks like.
Already has a new water pump within the last 10 years, and new brake shoes. And it's got a new Nelson muffler in a box just waiting to go on!
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 3:12pm |
GG, Merry Christmas! Looking forward to your work on the WD's next year too! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 3:38pm |
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I noticed your air cleaner has a screen around it. That was optional equipment so I'm guessing your WD use to run a corn picker on it. I also noticed it has the cultivator brackets installed up front as well, so it must of also ran a mounted cultivator at one time. Those were the days...
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garden_guy
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 4:40pm |
Sugarmaker -- Thanks, and Merry Christmas to you too! Looking forward to some fun tractor adventures on my other WD for 2021. I bought a kit from Steiner to rebuild the lift latches on my snap coupler arms, and a new curved gear shifter, so I am sure that will be an adventure!
EPALLIS -- I left both tractors more or less how my grandparents kept them, other than a few odds and ends that I felt needed fixed. On this tractor, I took off a few of the extra cultivator attachment points, but I liked the look and left the front cultivator pieces on as well as the screen on the air filter. Funny enough, my other WD has the front corn picker screen on it, which I just leave on for fun. Also with the cultivator brackets.  The cultivator, corn picker, combine, four row planter, stalk chopper and all that are long gone... Just hung on to the plow, mower, and a few other odds and ends. Made sure they went to good Allis people and not to the scrap yard.
Edited by garden_guy - 20 Dec 2020 at 4:42pm
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 6:50pm |
GG, That WD looks really happy in that picture! Great looking piece of ground! So your other WD currently has a curved shifter? That makes it a late model. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 7:18pm |
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Good to see you give the ole girl a facelift and a deserving clean up. The WD and WD45 put AC on the map, no other tractor AC made was produced more than them. They were advanced for their time period. The power adjustable rear wheels was probably the biggest innovation of the time period and continued until final production in 1985. Mine is a 1952, and it still earns its keep on our farm. Enjoy getting her back in tip top shape. The inner tube has too much fluid in it since you had it at the top unless the tire was flat when you added air in my opinion.
Edited by AC720Man - 20 Dec 2020 at 7:21pm
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 9:08pm |
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Did I understand right that you have a rear main leak, or just the oil pan? If it is the rear main there is a tool made (not very expensive) That helps you remove and replace the seal. I've always loosened the main caps dropping the crank just a LITTLE. Works pretty good. Can be a lot less work than pulling the engine which is good also. Leon
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garden_guy
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Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 10:20pm |
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Sugarmaker -- Indeed, that was a fun day just drivin' around! Yep, both my WDs are curved shifter '53s. One is SN 136XXX and the other is 141XXX I believe. The one with the wheels set in is my snap coupler equipped tractor I plow with. The other tractor with the wheels set to the middle is my mowing tractor (and sometimes discing tractor). I have a 3 bottom plow for it around somewhere that goes on over the drawbar, but it needs rebuilt... Far down on the list, haha.
AC720Man -- Feels good to clean it up and get some stuff repaired, like the blown out hub cap and some new front rubber and stuff. The power adjust wheels are really neat, and having two tractors means I don't have to do much moving them around as well haha. Definitely will be taking some excess fluid out... Probably need to get new tubes put in them and non-calcium fluid installed, honestly. And some rim welding.
LeonR2013 -- Not quite sure where my leak is actually. It seems to be the front curved area of the oil pan (just behind the front engine support crossmember)... Will have to think a bit on what I want to do on this one.
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