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TomYaz 
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 Topic: What the hell were they thinking...AC 175
Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 7:04pm |
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So I want to take the tire/hub off the tractor...lug nuts are loosened but wont come out...well, who the hell thought not threading the tractor side thus requiring a nut on the other side of the bolt was a great idea!? Cant even see the nuts! Had a hell of a time getting the wheel off as I was by myself.....I had a tractor tire service guy out to retube fill my WD45 tire and he thought it was bizzare too.....Oh btw, after filiing the old tire on the WD45 fluid, the tire blew off the rim and the water blew out the new tube....guy says tire too tired cant hold pressure that was called for........I always keep the tire underinflated for better traction guess thats why I never had a blowout. If it was overinflated it wasnt much. Funny thing is 10 min prior win filling he said in the 8 yrs doing was nervous in the begging of this line of work about over pressureing..but said never had a blowout.....I told him you just HAD to say that!! Oh well better there than out in the field...
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If its not an All-Crop, it all crap!
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DougG
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 7:46pm |
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I went that on a One Eighty- thought the hubs were threaded, nope a nut on the back and a few hours ,, uuggggg
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DMiller
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 7:54pm |
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Renter has a 4020 (ICK) Deere that way. asked about helicoiling them, said not worth it but will spend a couple hours fussing and fighting with the nuts to get them tight. Cheaper to buy hubs for all the wasted time.
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wayne IA
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:24pm |
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The hubs from the factory had threads until neglect or abuse with a wrench removed the threads and the person simply added nuts rather than fixing it correctly by either replacing the hub or using a heilicoil.
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Albert
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:35pm |
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I am sureTom is on the rear wheel not the front!
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DougG
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:41pm |
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Yeah this is all rear wheel action- the fronts are bad enough unless you put 2 studs across from each other
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wayne IA
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:43pm |
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The center bolts on the rear hub are also threaded into the hub from the factory though.
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Lonn
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:47pm |
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Someone has tampered with those wheels.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:49pm |
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170 (maybe), 175, 180 and 185 all have nuts on the rear lug bolts. There are no threads in the hub at all. They definitely are a pain to work with. Makes you think twice if you really need to remove the hub. They are much easier to deal with if you remove the rim first.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DougG
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 8:53pm |
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Just different enginering thoughts on that series
Edited by DougG - 24 Sep 2020 at 4:28am
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wayne IA
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 9:01pm |
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Looking at the parts book for the 175 and they do list a lock nut for the center bolts, but they also have a serial number break on the center bolts for 2 different part numbers. Don't know if the nuts were added later or what the change is. Been 20 years since I had to take a tire off the neighbors 180 to rebuild the brakes, I don't remember there being nuts on the inside of the hub. Looking at the 180 parts book though and it shows a serial number break for having nuts behind the hub, so the neighbors 180 must be a lower numbered one.
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Lonn
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Posted: 23 Sep 2020 at 9:10pm |
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OK for some reason I was thinking front wheels because I've seen stripped hubs with a nut on the back side. Second, even though I have worked on a few 170's and 180's where I had to take the rear wheels off and I never saw one with locking nuts on the back side, I guess I learned something new and totally agree, what a stupid thing to do.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 6:02am |
When I swapped wheels on my 180 the hubs were threaded just put the lugs in just like on any other wheel,if there are nuts on the back side the threads have been stripped out usually the result of an impact and cross threaded lug.Several on the front of my 180
require a nut.I just run a grade 8 bolt in from the back side and use lug nuts on those. If I needed to I'd do the same on the rear hubs and tack weld the bolt heads.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 6:16am |
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Yep they been there a long time .Unless a axle seal is leaking or you need to replace wheel center NO need to remove them .And I never remove wheels when doing brake jobs .
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DrAllis
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 6:26am |
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The original design was threaded into the hub and with the introduction of the ONE-EIGHTY, it took them a few years to figure out when the tractor was dualed up and weighed 9000 lbs the old design FAILED. So, they went to a larger diameter bolt with a lock nut and no more failures. Good design change because it was needed.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 7:06am |
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Yeah there are NO threads on the tractor side...smooth..as to removing the wheel first...yeah that wouldve helped. Dont think I had the muscle to slide the tire off the rail...tractor is dead and brakes froze up. If I had another person to hold the wrench on the nut and me on the outside with the ratchet it wouldnt of been too bad.... Do you think it would be wise to get the holes tapped out to fit a lug and not have to go thru this again? After all the whole final drive is coming off and apart. would have to drill the rim hole a bit bigger too I assume
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DrAllis
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 7:15am |
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I have no idea why you'd want to do that. The design is just fine and nothing ever works loose.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 7:24am |
 DrAllis wrote:
I have no idea why you'd want to do that. The design is just fine and nothing ever works loose. |
Well, to eliminate the pain in the ass in taking them off is a good enuff reason for me!
The WD45 is threaded, I assume the D17 is as well...what was the rational of going awaty from that? Tire service man thought it weird too...and he has seen lots of tires...
Edited by TomYaz - 24 Sep 2020 at 7:25am
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TomYaz
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 7:26am |
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Bad enough I have to take off the final drive to get to the brakes...
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Lonn
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 8:10am |
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The good doctor explained it well enough I guess. It was done because as the power and weight grew with that design the threaded hubs would fail. But I know what you mean Tom.
Edited by Lonn - 24 Sep 2020 at 8:10am
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mruhlig77
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 8:13am |
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Just a guess...but factory high crops had nuts to eliminate loosening....have two like that....
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Lonn
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 12:43pm |
mruhlig77 wrote:
Just a guess...but factory high crops had nuts to eliminate loosening....have two like that....
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Looks like all late model 170 and 180 tractors and all 175 and all 185 tractors went that way.
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Lonn
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 12:50pm |
Once I did have to remove the wheel off a 185 to replace a broken rear axle. I just don't remember those lock nuts but it has been over 25 years ago since I worked at the AC shop.
I still have some of the notes I took on each tractor I ever worked on while there. The owner's name, the tractor serial number, hours and what I exactly did to the tractor. Unfortunately mice got into those notes pretty bad when I stored my tool box in the garage for several years. I remember the 185 because around the same time our neighbor's 185 broke it's rear axle (it was his planter tractor and still is today) and the 185 I worked on had the other axle break a few years prior. I figure AC let some bad steel into those parts for a time.
Edited by Lonn - 24 Sep 2020 at 12:51pm
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 5:00pm |
Tom, I alway said that the world would be a lot different if engineers would consult me before they made any decisions.......OHBOY would it be different! LOL
probably not better, but different!
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tbran
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 8:39pm |
EZ ? We have seen dozens of bolts strip off in the threaded type wheel. Then one has to weld, drill , tap... and wind up with an odd hole or so, not so with the non threaded axle. Yup takes 2 to remove or a special vice grip -but as stated,,, but why remove the center?
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BigGuy1000
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Posted: 24 Sep 2020 at 9:19pm |
I have both a 170 and a 175D both purchased new. Neither one has any nuts on inside of hub, even though the 170 carried a NI mounted cornpicker for 25+ years, which meant that the wheels had to be swapped to mount the picker(sets the wheels much wider), then swapped back when done!
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 2:21am |
Went and looked at my 185 never knew about that lug deal.What a terrible idea,please post what solution you come up because if i ever have to pull the wheel centers off its going to be different going back on.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 6:39am |
tbran wrote:
EZ ? We have seen dozens of bolts strip off in the threaded type wheel. Then one has to weld, drill , tap... and wind up with an odd hole or so, not so with the non threaded axle. Yup takes 2 to remove or a special vice grip -but as stated,,, but why remove the center? |
I need to get to the brakes. I believe the brakes are rusted frozen. BUT it could be frozen up in the final drive who knows. In theory I suppose I could take the final drive off with tire on and all?, if could but dont have the right lift equipment to do that.
Well if I had a person to help it would have not been a big deal. I got bruises on my chest from pressing up against the tires to do the reach's....And then of course afterward it occurred to me to deflate the tires to give me more room...
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TomYaz
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Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 6:43am |
Gary Burnett wrote:
Went and looked at my 185 never knew about that lug deal.What a terrible idea,please post what solution you come up because if i ever have to pull the wheel centers off its going to be different going back on.
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Yeah Dr Allis explains why they did it, but youd think they would have made the mount with deeper threads or something other than that. The nut on the end was cheapest solution I would assume.... After waht DrAllis said, threading it out and putting in a larger bolt may be tempting fate....Tempting fate usually has me on the losing end. Next time will be sure to have a helper.
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If its not an All-Crop, it all crap!
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 25 Sep 2020 at 7:25am |
TomYaz wrote:
Gary Burnett wrote:
Went and looked at my 185 never knew about that lug deal.What a terrible idea,please post what solution you come up because if i ever have to pull the wheel centers off its going to be different going back on.
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Yeah Dr Allis explains why they did it, but youd think they would have made the mount with deeper threads or something other than that. The nut on the end was cheapest solution I would assume.... After waht DrAllis said, threading it out and putting in a larger bolt may be tempting fate....Tempting fate usually has me on the losing end. Next time will be sure to have a helper. |
My 180 has the threaded in from the outside lugs like a normal tractor hub,it has been used pretty hard with right much weight on the rear at times with no problems.If there is room I'd just get some lug bolts that are shouldered to go into the backside of the hub.
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