| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Donkeyboy 
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 190xt
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 6:12am |
|
Need help.Head redone,rebuilt pump,rebuilt injectors,timing at 26dg btdc,extremely hard start with tons of gray smoke,no priming pump has inline electric and plenty of fuel.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
ebowman
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Location: Kirklin, IN
Points: 161
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 6:35am |
|
how does it run after you get it going? rough at idle? smooth at high idle? What would happen to be the temperature when trying to start? Air intake heater used or working?
|
|
WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 6:39am |
|
It’s in my shop 70degrees,once it starts it’ll restart fine.Smoke clears up it purrs.Wont start without either over night.I have no leaks anywhere.Did a compression check 160-180 through all cylinders
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 6:41am |
|
2/6 had a miss fire on initial start up with the exhaust manifold off but cleared up.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21596
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:10am |
|
Cranking compression check with all injectors removed should be 350 psi or more. "Going thru the head" means grinding valves/seats ?? and when the valves are sunk into the head more than the .040" allowed by specs they will start hard.
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:13am |
|
It got all new valves guides and seats.My book showed head bolts 150 ft lbs.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21596
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:17am |
|
But how deep are the valves below flush of the cylinder head surface ????????????? Grinding the old seats just sinks the valves deeper, which lowers the compression. I can't believe you only have 160-180 psi of cranking compression. How did it start BEFORE you worked on it ??? Why was the head removed?? Has the inj pump been removed and reinstalled??
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:32am |
|
I will have to call the machine shop on the valve seats there all new.Head was removed because it leaked oil out the intake side. I ran it all last year on a round baler gray smoked like crazy so sent the pump and injectors out for a rebuild.Started fine lastyear.Maybe I need to do a recheck of compression but I’m pretty sure its correct.4700 hours maybe it’s time for rings
|
|
ebowman
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Location: Kirklin, IN
Points: 161
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:33am |
When I overhauled mine last winter, the machine shop had to replace my valve seats in my head due to the fact the seats were in the head too far. He asked me if any work had been done on head before. Of course I didn't know.
My point is that machine shops don't always get things correct. Now she fires up at 20* without being plugged in.
|
|
WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5080
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:37am |
|
Who did the pump work? I've seen some really poor work out there, and the timing mark could be way off inside the pump. Did they rebuild your pump, or exchange? Like Dr asked, how did it run before? After reading this, it almost looks to me like you're confusing compression testing, with head bolt torque. Maybe I just mis-read. Compression testing involves removing all 6 injectors, and putting a dummy injector test adapter in one cylinder at a time. AC books called for running comp test, but that is much more difficult. Extremely low compression from stuck rings will cause it to smoke white like crazy, and require ether to get started and even keep running on ether until it gets some heat into it.
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
ebowman
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Location: Kirklin, IN
Points: 161
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 7:45am |
Hard starting when cold, starts fine when warmed up.........
Sounds like low compression or fuel bleeding off. From his description I would say low compression. either in the head or in the rings.
|
|
WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 8:08am |
|
The pump went to Kansas a friend of mine sent it out there. I’ll do another compression check tonight I believe I left the injector copper rings in when I did it.And once again check my timing.Im about to pull the pump and have it locally checked.3k in parts and worse off than started ugh.
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 8:10am |
|
A warn pump head or leaking delivery valve will cause poor start and a lot of white smoke. Advanced timing will also cause the same thing. MACK
|
|
Donkeyboy
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Feb 2020
Location: Reelsville,In
Points: 19
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 8:34am |
|
The pump was supposed to have been ( rebuilt )
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5080
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 8:45am |
|
To compression test, you need to use a copper washer like on the injector, just reuse the same one. Just needs to seal off the chamber. As Dr said above, a diesel engine should have at least 300 psi cranking, 350-400 is better. The higher it is, the better it will start at colder temps. I cannot believe grinding valves and sinking the height could lose 200 psi.
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
ebowman
Bronze Level
Joined: 06 Sep 2018
Location: Kirklin, IN
Points: 161
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 8:57am |
|
If you going to take the pump somewhere send it to InjpumpED. I wouldn't trust anyone in Indianapolis
|
|
WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler
|
|
