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OK,,for the mathematicians here,,,, |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13696 |
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OK,,,for some time,,the motor on my air compressor has been on the going south trip,,so,I went to look at a job in a guys garage and he gots two motors I would like to buy or trade for this work. Mine is a 3 HP 1750 1 phase 220 volt capacitor start and capacitor run that has been on the compressor forever,,,,Pully size on the motor is 5 1/2" He has a 3 HP 1750 1 phase that would be almost a direct changeout. He also has what I would really like to have and is a 5HP 3600 1 phase 220 volt. The compressor has a 14" flywheel, so that is not changeable. What size pulley would I have to run on the motor to slow it down to where the 1750 is running now,,?
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33992 |
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Basically Half the Speed on your Motor, to get the travel distance of the belts Close, would need to be 2"(1.95) by Pi R squared calculation. Get the running Diam of the 5.5 then reduce by Half, reverse the math.
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LouSWPA ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 25153 |
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2-3 inches, as DM says. close enough anyhow
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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Michael V (NM) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2472 |
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Would it hurt to run the compressor faster??...it would really get them CFM up there Where ya could some big air tools....
I have a kinda home built compressor with a Champion compressor, it has a 3 hp on it since I've had it, the book says a 7 hp motor will get more rpm on the compressor, which = more CFM, it's just that its at the max that the 3 hp can do... oh yea,, it's a 2 stage and takes some hp to pull it.. |
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson Cnty,GA Points: 6468 |
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A 2 3/4 inch pulley should get you about the same rpm's on the flywheel. I would stay with the 3hp motor though if the existing one has had adequate power, it will require less current to operate.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson Cnty,GA Points: 6468 |
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Dave, down here pi R round, not square.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson Cnty,GA Points: 6468 |
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Had to go dig out my trusty slide rule to figure all of that. We didn't have hand held calculators when I was in school.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13696 |
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Well Chit I KNEW I shoulda told all the tidbits on the first go round,,,, ![]() Michael,,,you do got a point in that I prolly should drive the AO Smith compressor a shade faster for faster pressure build up as it now just loafs along at the speed it now runs at with the existing 3 HP. BUT,,I do have a two stage Champion compressor that I traded work for and I completely rebuilt it for a spare and it been under the work bench for bout 5 years. It has a 5" low stage cylinder and a 2" high stage cylinder. The PO of the 2 stage had it driven with a 5 HP 3600 motor with a really small pulley on the motor but I did not measure the pulley back then. What I would like to do is buy that guy's 5 HP motor and install it on the AO Smith and run it till the compressor crashes ,,then install the rebuilt Champion with the 5 HP already there,,,,sound like a plan,,,???
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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whew...
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LouSWPA ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 25153 |
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Hubert, I cant tell you how many times that line got me ejected from math class.....but it made Debby Cook, the little blond that sat next to me in math class laugh every time..... so I was doomed to repeat it, and get ejected! side not, I saw Debby ten years ago at out 40th class reunion.....she sure held up well! |
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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Coke-in-MN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41980 |
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You figure about 1/2 the diameter but then need to check the amp draw of motor when running . I went to a larger motor on mine from 2 to 3 hp but at 1750 RPM , took amp reading on motor and then increased drive pulley by about 3/4 " over 2 HP motor .
Later i changed out compressor head and new one had larger driven pulley so had to do another amp draw for load to get size right . Most capacitor start , capacitor run have the small 5/8 shaft where larger and heavier motors with have a large shaft I believe 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 . Edited by Coke-in-MN - 10 Nov 2019 at 12:48am |
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Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33992 |
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I can agree Hubert, PiE R Round, but Pi R Squared too!! I LOVE Pie, square pie, round pie, triangle pie, any kind of Pie!!
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12185 |
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When figuring ratios, Pi R constant. As in, on both sides of the equation, so simply ratio the diameters. And account for the different motor RPM of course.
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chaskaduo ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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Here's a pulley size calculator I use that has a few different scenarios use can throw at it. Been really helpful, and easy peezy is what I like.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2434 |
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Chaska you have a pic of that 16hp weedeater?
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iowallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 2017 Location: North Iowa Points: 371 |
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My algebra teacher would ask me to find the "X". I would say "How would I know where the X is, you were the one married to her".
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DanD ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: WI Points: 856 |
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Just as the earlier post said it's simply a ratio of diameters here. Can forget about pi since it just drops out of the equation. Here is the simplified equation. 1750/3600×5.5=2.67. So a 2.75" diameter pulley (if you can find that size) would run it ever so slightly faster.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87869 |
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and since the motor is 5 HP instead of 3 HP, maybe add 10% so the 2.75 inch becomes 3 inch pulley.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13696 |
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Well,,,so many THANK YOU'S to all of ya'll Gurus for all the help,,,,,
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farmboy520 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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You might check your contacts in your pressure switch. Sometimes the arc of when they start the motor fries them and your not getting the correct voltage to your motor and you think it's going south.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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TimNearFortWorth ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Points: 2014 |
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When I sold high end rotary screw compressors (Kaeser), we would promote a little 3 or 5hp stand-alone for small shops that had a recip. They could use their existing air receiver and keep the old reciprocating unit as a back-up. Had a distributor I set up that I also used for air piping on big jobs, guy was good in black iron or copper of all sizes and I learned plenty from him as he also fixed plenty of folks worn out recip units.
As I-R quality had gone downhill with India made units, Saylor Beall was a standout replacement "pump", tougher than pretty much all the newer units sold by the old name brands. Hanging intercoolers made them last as they dissipated heat well, then the Chinese copies hit the market. The "Fushang" copy of the SB is tough and very inexpensive for anyone wanting a good reliable recip replacement pump. Common shaft sizes, look up the sheave od requirement for different motors and go. Would not run any recip without a low level oil switch as cheap insurance.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24694 |
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All compressor 'heads' have a range of RPMs. Slower ,they last longer. Faster they'll supply more CFM( pumping more air ) a 2.75" pulley will give same as you have now, a 3" will be slightly faster, and belt may last longer.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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chaskaduo ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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Bruce (Fixer1958) I just covered it up with tarping and all bungeed down for the winter yesterday. This one is not mine but looks the same. ![]() That's actually the gas tank cap sitting on the console, should be on the tank under the hood.
Edited by chaskaduo - 10 Nov 2019 at 2:43pm |
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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TMiller/NC ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lenoir, NC Points: 1776 |
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Multiply drive (motor) pulley size by drive (motor) rpm divide by driven (compressor) pulley size equals driven (compressor) rpm... work back to find new motor pulley size.. 1750 X 5.5 = 9625 / 14 = 687.5 compressor rpm 687.5 X 14= 9625 / 3600 = 2.6736 new pulley size
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2434 |
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Didn't know Weedeater tagged a riding lawnmower. I was waiting to see a 16hp weed wacker.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13696 |
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Hey FarmBoy...great idea,,!! it sure might be the pressure switch as it does not do the slow down all the time,,and when it does,,it will usually speed back up to normal RPM after runnin at the slow down rate,,,,Gonna try filing the contacts today,,,, Hey Tim,,it good to hear from you,,Guy,,!! I agree with the rotary screw compressors,,I just don't like the higher speeds they run at to make the air,,,,, ![]() Say Chask,,,that has to be the very first Weed Eater brand rider I ever seen,,and I've worked on a whole bunch of them,,, Good lookin machine,,!! Just you wait til ole Shameless sees them yellow wheels,,,he gonna think that is one of them Green tractors he like so much,,,,, ![]() ![]() ![]() thas great info, TMiller,,THANKS. ![]() Edited by desertjoe - 11 Nov 2019 at 2:39am |
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chaskaduo ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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Joe, I'm sure Shammers will understand it's for them citybot weeds of mine. It shows all kinds of respect to my Allis B, so does my 79 Dynamark, 91 Dakota, and 96 Caravan. Allis is 81 yrs old now.
Hey Fixer, I wish I could sling a 16hp hand held weed wacker around, talk about needin some cannons.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Stan IL&TN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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Joe try to keep the RPMs close to what it was. The compressor will heat up more the faster you run them and if too fast it will cook itself and you will be looking for a new one. Just saying.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6069 |
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I'll drink to that!!! Okay, so here's some notes to add: MANY compressors don't run well when going TOO SLOW... it's because they're frequently splash-lubricated. Some compressors (like the rotary screws Tim was talkin' about) use 'differential pressure' (high-vs-low side) to siphon oil from the reservoir up into the workings and bearings... so one needs to know EXACTLY how they work, before arbitrarily changing speed. Some compressors (like the big Quincy that I'm rebuilding right now) have the option of running in different modes, and as a result, they have different lubrication methods, if you choose to run in a different mode, the lubrication system must be changed accordingly, but typically, compressors of that caliber are very well documented. running a compressor slower WILL reduce noice, and heat (Boyle's Law). Joe's single-stage pump was designed to push a large volume, but it takes special consideration to run high pressure. My Brunner V4 is a two-stage unit, and while it was designed for a 10hp 3hp motor, I run it on a 2hp capacitor start... and it does fine, but I've made sure everyhing is 'right' for the circumstance. The unloader mechanism's setup can be critical to starting ability with a small motor. The unloader's function is to relieve head pressure from the pump on shutdown (keeps from blowing out seals in the pump, and blowing compressor oil all over the shop), and allow for a no-pressure load on startup. It does this with a check valve at the tank, and a known volume between tank and pump, and a valve that 'dumps' pressure in this volume at shutdown. In the case of my Brunner, the unloader activates on motor shutdown, it vents the volume between pump and tank check valve. There's other methods of unloading, and there's different unloading 'modes', particularly on high-quality systems, so know your pump's methods before going willy-nilly. When you go to a smaller pully, there's less contact surface of the drive belt, which means reduced belt capacity. This being the case, people who do a motor swap from 4 pole (1800rpm) to 2 pole (3600rpm) motor frequently experience belt slip, and they counteract that by increasing belt tension, which puts substantially more load on the compressor's shaft bearings, and on the motor. There's a variety of ways to combat this... going to matched dual-belts, or a speed reduction jackshaft... and of course going to a toothed-belt drive. It will probably be fine with a lower-power motor at 3600 with a smaller sheave, but hopefully these notes will help you understand what you're facing if it doesn't work properly at first try.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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LeonR2013 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Hey Joe, want to figure it the easy way? All you have to do is multiply the size of your small pulley times your motor RPM, and divide the outside diameter of the big wheel into it. Working maintenance in a sawmill years ago I had to build several gear reduction systems, even double reduction using this method and they worked fine. Leon
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