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Demandred 
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Location: MO
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 Topic: Allis 190 Weak loader on lift
Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 11:10am |
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Hello all, First, I did search this problem, but found nothing..so here is what I got. My late 1960's gas 190 has a front end loader on it. When i try to lift, it is very weak and slow. The bucket works normally, as does the power steering,and the 3 point arms. Even remote accessories like my log splitter work normally. I changed the oil (but not the filter cause I dont have one on hand yet) but made no difference. Im kinda thinking dirt in the remote valve. anybody else run into this problem before? Thanks!
Edited by Demandred - 02 Jun 2019 at 11:11am
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 1:00pm |
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I am thinking blown piston seal in one or the other side lift cylinder allowing oil to bypass. Would probably be a good time to repack BOTH if one is bypassing.
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 1:54pm |
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Well that's definitely a thought maybe look into that. If the seal is blown though would the loader stay up in the neutral position? As long as I'm not trying to lift it it'll stay wherever I leave it at
Edited by Demandred - 02 Jun 2019 at 1:58pm
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 6:44pm |
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Ok, as the first reply stated, gotta be a blown seal. I switched the lift hoses to the bucket outlets (that worked fine) and still have very weak lift. The rods are all dinged and scratched anyway, so will prob just buy two new cylinders..Thanks for the input, just saved me hours of troubleshooting/unneeded disassembly.
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 8:46pm |
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A good hydraulic shop can make new pistons for your cylinders.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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MACK
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 8:53pm |
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Lift and tilt cylinder are different size so smaller cylinder will always work faster.
If cylinder has blown seal, they will leak down. MACK
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:07pm |
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ok, now I have doubts...Because the loader will stay wherever i park it.. but if I try to lift at lower rpm, it drifts down. so what else could that be besides a blown seal?
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:09pm |
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sadly I do not know of any good hydraulic shops near me. but as bad as the rods look it is prob time to replace them anyway..but thanks for the tip.
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MACK
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:22pm |
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That sounds like a worn out pump or blown seal in pump. Have saw a lot of blown seals in pumps over the years. Be sure to take it apart before spending the$$$$$$$ for a new pump. MACK
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:30pm |
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Hmm, but why would all the rest of my stuff work then? things like my log splitter, 3 point arms, power steering etc? would it stay up with just one lift cyl with a bad seal? it will also trip out on the bucket and log splitter,and the 3 point, when they hit the end of stroke, but the lift wont.
Sadly, Hydraulics are not my area of knowledge.
Edited by Demandred - 02 Jun 2019 at 9:37pm
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MACK
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:36pm |
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Good ?. Have you had a good load in wood splitter or 3pt lately? MACK
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:39pm |
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well, ran the splitter this past winter some, and it worked fine splitting monster size wood..the 3 point, no i havent, but it trips when they come all the way up.
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Demandred
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:46pm |
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guess I could always plumb up a gauge on a short bit of hose and see what kind of pressure I am getting.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 10:45pm |
You might want to check the hoses on the cylinders and see how they are connected...
Maybe you have a scored section in the cylinder tube in one spot and it comes down to it, or there is a poppet safety valve inside on the rams or??? You said you changed hoses on the hydraulic connections so your using different valve for the loader bucket as well as for the loader and it still did not help on the loader arms from drifting as you try to raise them. Correct? Sure doesn't sound right. How big of cylinders? got air trapped in one of them? Got some sort of a pressure relief valve on the loader? got some sort of a check valve tyhat needs pressure to relieve the system and they lock up when there is no pressure being applied?
Got any pics of the cylinders and loader and plumbing of it??
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Demandred
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Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 5:38am |
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Well, I don't know, to most of your questions. Yeah, i swapped the hookups around, so I was using the bucket remote to run the arms, and it was the same as before. no lift at all at low rpm, slow lift at high rpm, and drifts down from the up position at low rpm, but stays put in the neutral position.I dont have pics but can take some when I get home tonight. not sure if I can post them here though.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 5:53am |
re: why loader stays at position in 'neutral' if seals gone.. Yes, it'll stay 'at position'. With the valve in 'neutral' oil cannot leak back or drain from either side of the ram. There's oil from the 'up' outlet of the valve->hose->ram->dn hose-> dn outlet of valve. While oil can go around the bad seal(s) it has nowhere to go as BOTH ends are 'shut off'. If you put a marble in a clear piece of tubing, say 1/3rd in. fill with water, close off BOTH ends, providing there's no air in the 'system', the marble won't move, course now that I'm typing this I want to try that....
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Demandred
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Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 6:04am |
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Ok, thanks for the input. Im really grateful for all the ppl, trying to help me out. Really starting to think the first reply is the answer, but going to look into everything i can.
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Demandred
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Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 7:44pm |
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Ok everyone, Thanks for all the help! The first reply was correct. As I was putting my hoses back in their correct places, noticed the lift cyl hoses check ball was still depressed. upon closer inspection, it was packed full of seal pieces from the lift cyl(s).Hopefully none of the chunks made it to the remote valve, since I REALLY don't want to try and take that apart. I really appreciate everyones help on this! you guys are great!
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