190XT sleeve installation

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   OK guys, need some help...trying to install new sleeves in my 190xt diesel. The new sleeves come with 3 orings. 2 black (round) and one red. There is 2 grooves toward the bottom (oil pan) and one at the top (head). The service manual says that a black square oring is installed at the top on early  190xt models and the red at the bottom. I have tried to get these sleeves in and I can't get them down far enough to meet specs. When I install them without the orings they drop in easy and meet specs. I have tried driving them in with a good oak board and 10lb sledge. Its not a lack of effort. I don't have the old sleeves to check what was on them, but I don't remember seeing orings on the top. I thru them away making space for parts coming in:(  Does it need the top oring or is that a different model? I have a #4901 190XT and a Reliant sleeve kit for a 2900 engine. 

thanks

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ebowman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Location: Kirklin, IN Points: 161	Post Options Post Reply Quote ebowman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 190XT sleeve installation Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 1:56pm
	OK guys, need some help...trying to install new sleeves in my 190xt diesel. The new sleeves come with 3 orings. 2 black (round) and one red. There is 2 grooves toward the bottom (oil pan) and one at the top (head). The service manual says that a black square oring is installed at the top on early 190xt models and the red at the bottom. I have tried to get these sleeves in and I can't get them down far enough to meet specs. When I install them without the orings they drop in easy and meet specs. I have tried driving them in with a good oak board and 10lb sledge. Its not a lack of effort. I don't have the old sleeves to check what was on them, but I don't remember seeing orings on the top. I thru them away making space for parts coming in:( Does it need the top oring or is that a different model? I have a #4901 190XT and a Reliant sleeve kit for a 2900 engine. thanks
	WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler

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Boss Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 617	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boss Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 3:15pm
	Haven't rebuilt that many Allis engines, but have done a far share of wet sleeve engines and I've never seen one with an o-ring on the top by the head. The pressing of the head on the sleeve pushs it against the block causes it to seal. Should just be 2 orings on the bottom. One seals water the other seals oil. Some sleeves have 3 oring s on the bottom

Dick L Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dick L Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 3:32pm
	Sounds like it might have an extra large diameter rubber. What type of lube are you using on the O rings? I wouldn't drive real hard to get them down for fear of sheering some the O ring off causing them or it to leak. If an O ring starts to roll as it enters it climbs up out of the groove and pinches above the groove. Dr. Allis will probly come along and shed some light on the problem.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21725	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 3:54pm
	The Supplier of those new parts doesn't have complete enough instructions (PICTURES) to help you ?? Red or orange Oring in the bottom groove. Black Oring above it. NOTHING at the top. You have an extra black Oring. Use Mazola cooking oil wiped inside the block bore and thinly wiped on the Orings on the sleeves. Roll each oring into place and then with a pocket screwdriver lift under each Oring and go around a couple of times to get out any twists. I have never seen an AC sleeve that needs an Oring at the top deck area. If this Supplier has chosen to design that feature into his parts, he should have better instructions than you are looking at. The AC sleeves from 1964 may have had something (square flat ?) and that's a problem with info that is 50+ years old and not accurate. It may take a big rubber hammer to get the sleeves to go the last 1/2". Be sure to use a short bolt and a big flat washer to squeeze them home and hold them there until you throw on the cylinder head.

670denny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Mar 2019 Location: red bud il Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote 670denny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 4:07pm
	yes sum of the sleeves had 3 o ring and sum had 2... place the orings of the 2 oring type in appropriate location in the grooves..i used veg.oil to lube them all the time..but you have to work a little faster because the oring could swell...they also say water & soap.but i found this to rust the sleevs fast when settin for a month or 2 before firing up... do not put a oring at top of sleeve next to block deck..this will hold the sleeve out of the block...if you only have 2 grooves only use a orange & black disregaurd the other oring if you have oiled them you should be able to put a pc of wood across the sleeve and pop it with your hand and it should slide home...after this i always draw them down with a bolt & washer on each side of the sleeves to hold them down while installing the pistons & rods also did you check sleeve stand out before installing sleeves permanitly...this is a critical step..

ebowman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 06 Sep 2018 Location: Kirklin, IN Points: 161	Post Options Post Reply Quote ebowman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 9:23pm
	Awesome. Thanks!! Got em. We dry fit them and checked our tolerances. When we took the top oring off they fit perfect with the tap of a wood board and the tolerance was perfect! Ring gap was checked. Instructions said to follow manufacturers recommendations. We used JD soap and have filled block with water to let soak over night to make sure no leaks. The shop manual said early 190. Not XT took 3 orings
	WD45, '62 D17 Diesel, '65 190XTD, '74 7030, 1958 Roto-Baler

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Mar 2019 at 10:12pm
	I would take the sleeves to machine shop and have third groove cut between the two. That is what I have done with then for several years. MACk