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Louisdove 
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Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Location: Michigan
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 Topic: 5020 starting trouble, sloooow crank
Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 7:41pm |
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Hello!
Went out to start my 5020 yesterday and after warming the plugs, turned the key to crank and all I got was one sloooooow crank. Assuming it was from the cold (Michigan) and not having been run in a week, I plugged in the block heater and slapped the battery tender on the battery.
Went out to try again this afternoon and same thing, about 1.5 slooooowww cranks and then click. So, to escalate things, I decided to try and jump it. Same thing, a slow crank, maybe two. The car headlights would dim like it was struggling to provide enough power.
Oil is fresh, battery isn't new but hasn't given me too many problems. I do have to jump the starter with a screwdriver at times like seems so common on these tractors.
I'm at a loss and am very green when it comes to tractors. The fact it wouldn't even properly crank when being jumped really confused me. Any advice would be great, I'm not sure where to start. Thanks in advance!
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 53351
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Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 8:52pm |
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Check the hot and ground wires, from the battery, bet you have corrosion in the big wires, somewhere...
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Ted J
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Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 9:08pm |
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Jumping the starter shouldn't be any problem, other than you need to get a new solenoid on it. Or it could be the switch.
Your battery is SHOT....bottom line.
When jumping and it pulls the jumping vehicles lights down means it's pulling WAY TOO much amperage and volts. Switch out the battery and give me an atta boy....
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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john(MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9262
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:08am |
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Try cleaning both battery posts and also where the Neg cable connects on the tractor. When you take the neg cable off the battery look close and see it the post is black. That indicates a bad ground.
I had the same problem with my 5020 and that was the solution. I hope that helps. You may also need to put the charger on the battery.
If that doesn't fix the problem then it's time for a new battery.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Louisdove
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 5:38am |
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Thank you for the help so far! I have a spare battery charging up that I am going to give a shot once I get a chance to inspect the wires.
I have a feeling I will be replacing the battery. Any suggestions on a replacement? This tractor is new to me so I don't want to just go buy the exact one that was on there if there is something better for it out there.
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dt1050
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Location: central pa
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 6:36am |
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check the battery to see if it's froze inside. had one freeZe up this year in the cold.
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Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Gary Burnett
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Location: Virginia
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 6:41am |
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If your battery is shorted out sometimes jumping it won't work.
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Dick L
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edon Ohio
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 2:56pm |
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I was having problems on mine when it started to get cold. Where the bolt holds the ground wire from battery to the tractor seemed tight but when I twisted it hard the lock washer under the head fell out. Then it was loose. The bolt was rusted in and when I tried to remove the bolt it twisted off. I drilled a new hole beside it, bolted it fast with a new bolt and it cranks over like it should.
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Dick L
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:00pm |
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Did you jump it at the starter or the battery. I jump mine at the starter. I jump all my tractors at the starter and never on the battery.
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Dick L
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:02pm |
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I buy the largest battery that will fit in. You can never have to much battery if they fit and can be held down.
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Louisdove
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:20pm |
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I tried jumping it at the starter, with the ground on the battery. I did that once in the past and it worked, but did not work yesterday. I'm going to mess around with it tonight and start by checking the ground. It may have froze and damaged the battery, it was at or below zero for a couple of weeks here.
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BenGiBoy
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Location: Ashville, NY
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 3:42pm |
You do have multi-weight oil like 5W-30 or something in there,,,,right? SAE 30 would be like putty at 0 deg F....  One of those stupid things that you will be really mad at yourself for not thinking of or else you will just think "who does he think he is talking to????" deals... either way works for me......  I hope you can get her goin' again soon! It sucks when the tractor goes down....
- Ben
(If anyone else already mentioned that..... oops, I missed it.  ) |
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'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
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DiyDave
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Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 5:54pm |
another thing you can do is to get some heat on the motor. A forced air heater, hot plate under it, or an infra red light bulb, anything that warms it up...
I Use one of these, to pre-heat motors, it takes about 45 min, to an hour, on a little motor like the 5020 has:
I got like 4 of 'em, now, lotsa times you can get them on craigslist, or at yard sales. some are Coleman's, some other brands, but never paid much more than 10-15 bucks fer 'em...
Edited by DiyDave - 24 Jan 2018 at 5:58pm
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Louisdove
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 8:23pm |
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I believe I have 15w-40 in there. I always get that and the truck confused though so maybe 5w-40. Either way, it would be like puddy. I do have a block heater installed and ran it for about 30 mins before attempting to start it.
I didn't mess with it today, but should be able to tomorrow. I figure I'll plug the heater in for a few hours before hand, swap the battery with a spare, and clean all the connections while I'm at it. If that doesn't do it, back to the drawing board. Or back on here at least!
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BenGiBoy
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Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 9:49pm |
Well, 5 or 15W-40 would be lots better than straight 30! I would run that block heater at least an hour, personally, but it also gets pretty boring if you don't have anything else to do. So.....a couple hours is good, I unusually plug mine in overnight before I want it, and sometimes I forget and have it plugged in for a couple weeks! But it's ready to go next time.  Hope it goes well! Let us know... 
Edited by BenGiBoy - 24 Jan 2018 at 9:52pm
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'39 Model B
Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that!
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dt1050
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 9:21am |
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make sure ya check the steering problem as well, other wise you'll chew up the little pinion shaft which is no longer available. been there done that.
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Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Louisdove
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 10:53am |
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Well, I got her going! However, it was one of those days where I threw a few things at it so I'm not sure what the exact fix was, haha. I removed and cleaned both battery posts, removed, cleaned and drilled a fresh hole for the ground, let the block heater run for about three hours, and then tried jumping it again. The initial try I jumped to the battery with no luck. Then I jumped the starter and she fired right up. I ran her four a couple of hours around the yard and parked her for the night. The next day I plugged the heater in for a couple of hours and she fired right up without a jump. I'm sure the battery is about shot and will need to be replaced. Going to be an expensive spring, this battery, the two on my f250, and one of my trolling motor batteries are all due to be replaced.
I haven't messed with the steering play yet. I've been keeping an eye open for a parts tractor so I can get that bushing replaced.
Thank you all for the help!
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im4racin
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 5:02pm |
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When I picked up my 5020 it would barely crank in a heated shop. Replaced batt with group 31 and built hold down. Replaced both cables and put ground directly on engine block. Checked glow plugs and block heater. All were good. Changed to 5w-40 synthetic and filled with straight number 1 fuel. This year it started at -10f without block heater just glow plugs for about 45 seconds and sitting for a couple weeks . I know the group 31 and 2 gauge cables are overkill but tha darn thing starts!
Edited by im4racin - 27 Jan 2018 at 5:04pm
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EricPA
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 5:43pm |
 Louisdove wrote:
Well, I got her going! However, it was one of those days where I threw a few things at it so I'm not sure what the exact fix was, haha. I removed and cleaned both battery posts, removed, cleaned and drilled a fresh hole for the ground, let the block heater run for about three hours, and then tried jumping it again. The initial try I jumped to the battery with no luck. Then I jumped the starter and she fired right up. I ran her four a couple of hours around the yard and parked her for the night. The next day I plugged the heater in for a couple of hours and she fired right up without a jump. I'm sure the battery is about shot and will need to be replaced. Going to be an expensive spring, this battery, the two on my f250, and one of my trolling motor batteries are all due to be replaced.
I haven't messed with the steering play yet. I've been keeping an eye open for a parts tractor so I can get that bushing replaced.
Thank you all for the help! |
As for the battery replacements do you have an Interstate battery warehouse near you? (not the repair shop on the corner but the warehouse that supplies him). They sell factory blemish batteries that aren't labeled and have no warranty for $50 each. been using them for 10+ years with no problems, including my F250.
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Life is tough,but it's tougher when you're stupid. - John Wayne
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Louisdove
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 6:11pm |
EricPA wrote:
Louisdove wrote:
Well, I got her going! However, it was one of those days where I threw a few things at it so I'm not sure what the exact fix was, haha. I removed and cleaned both battery posts, removed, cleaned and drilled a fresh hole for the ground, let the block heater run for about three hours, and then tried jumping it again. The initial try I jumped to the battery with no luck. Then I jumped the starter and she fired right up. I ran her four a couple of hours around the yard and parked her for the night. The next day I plugged the heater in for a couple of hours and she fired right up without a jump. I'm sure the battery is about shot and will need to be replaced. Going to be an expensive spring, this battery, the two on my f250, and one of my trolling motor batteries are all due to be replaced.
I haven't messed with the steering play yet. I've been keeping an eye open for a parts tractor so I can get that bushing replaced.
Thank you all for the help! |
As for the battery replacements do you have an Interstate battery warehouse near you? (not the repair shop on the corner but the warehouse that supplies him). They sell factory blemish batteries that aren't labeled and have no warranty for $50 each. been using them for 10+ years with no problems, including my F250. |
I'm not sure if I do, but I promise I will be looking before I purchase them. That'd be huge savings. I live around Flint/Detroit so I wouldn't be surprised if there was one near me. Thanks a ton for the advice.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 27 Jan 2018 at 6:43pm |
We also have a place, around here, that sells 2 year old batteries, removed from fleets, for about $50. I'm so cheap, though, that when a battery goes, on a car in the family, becomes unreliable, I pass them a core battery, and use the undependable ones, in my kuboters...
I do use new batteries, in the work trucks, and on the 1 machine, that it takes 2 hours to replace the battery in...
If it takes a lot of labor, to put a battery in, it makes sense to put a premium battery in it. And its core can go into another kuboter... |
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 28 Jan 2018 at 9:24am |
Louisdove wrote:
EricPA wrote:
Louisdove wrote:
Well, I got her going! However, it was one of those days where I threw a few things at it so I'm not sure what the exact fix was, haha. I removed and cleaned both battery posts, removed, cleaned and drilled a fresh hole for the ground, let the block heater run for about three hours, and then tried jumping it again. The initial try I jumped to the battery with no luck. Then I jumped the starter and she fired right up. I ran her four a couple of hours around the yard and parked her for the night. The next day I plugged the heater in for a couple of hours and she fired right up without a jump. I'm sure the battery is about shot and will need to be replaced. Going to be an expensive spring, this battery, the two on my f250, and one of my trolling motor batteries are all due to be replaced.
I haven't messed with the steering play yet. I've been keeping an eye open for a parts tractor so I can get that bushing replaced.
Thank you all for the help! |
As for the battery replacements do you have an Interstate battery warehouse near you? (not the repair shop on the corner but the warehouse that supplies him). They sell factory blemish batteries that aren't labeled and have no warranty for $50 each. been using them for 10+ years with no problems, including my F250. |
I'm not sure if I do, but I promise I will be looking before I purchase them. That'd be huge savings. I live around Flint/Detroit so I wouldn't be surprised if there was one near me. Thanks a ton for the advice. |
Maybe that Flint water ruined you battery! lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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dt1050
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Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 4:50am |
for the steering shaft bushing if you can't find one, I"d imagine you could get a rubber bushing for a cab mount for a truck or simler and trim it down to fit. not bad if you can get the steering wheel off, real pain in the if ya have to dig down into the steering column and knock the roll pins out.
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Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 9:03pm |
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Slow cranking... well, sometimes it IS the battery, but when I've got a problem-child, I do this:
Crank it, let it crank slow. We know that it isn't gonna start, but crank it for long enough for you to 'know better'. Now hop off, and feel the battery cables- start from the terminals, and go to the starter. Now feel the starter. Now feel the ground cable from ground point back to battery.
Feel anything hot? If so, THAT is where your problem IS.
Battery cables are fine copper strands in a rubber/plastic jacket. The ends of those jackets are bare, the copper is exposed at the end. Moisture gets in there... right out of the air... condensation, rain, just plain ol humidity. Capillary Action sucks the moisture INTO the wire... and then it starts to corrode the copper.
I've dealt with this problem in machinery and boats for years... customers replacing batteries over and over... alternators, starters, even pulling engines and giving them rebuilds, new oil pumps, etc., when the problem is simple: Cables and connections.
Back when I worked with railroad locomotives, we'd use an IR scope... like what house insulation contractors use to look for efficiency losses... and when we could see a busbar glowing from 5 feet away, there was no doubt where our problems were.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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